Is Anywhere Safe Anymore?

[RCF]

The only times I have been broken into, my vehicles twice, and my home once has been in the 1970's. We knew who did it. My friends kept an eye out for stolen items. They came on the market. We called LEO and went to the home of the perp. The father said ' My son was home that night. What night was it?'. Upon leaving that home the LEO said not much I can do. But there is street justice... A few weeks later the perps car engine seized up. I do not know how or why because I was out of town.

Yet my home is now surrounded by cameras and a security system. There are people in my neighborhood well-known to LEO that are breaking into vehicles, mailboxes, and garages on an ongoing basis. Crimes of opportunity IMHO. I keep getting alerts about sex-offenders moving in close-by. I believe crime has always been here, just that it is much more visible due to the news, social media and all the electronic gadgets people have available to them.

Lots of reasons for people that are 'down on their luck'. Each person has their own story. Part of the reason the solution' is so complicated. Can all be helped? No, but until we understand each story, we can not help some of them.

 

[Zak]

Crime rates are down everywhere since the 70's.

Might be attributable in part to taking lead out of gasoline in the 1970s.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I don't think that it's an easy case to make that increased police funding led to a decrease in crime in NYC. Crime rates are down everywhere since the 70's. NY is no exception.

There seems to be so much more to the story of crime than the simple "It's what we allow" framework. I think that a lot of it really comes down to the extent that people in an area feel connected to each other and the community. I may be in the minority here but I don't really think that an increase in policing would reduce violent crime at all. In fact, the opposite may actually be more probable. Harsher sentences seem to be even more counter to decreased violent crime from what I have seen.

Property crimes are a completely different story. I do see a scenario where decreases in policing can and do allow for an increase in property crimes. I still think that there are other factors at play but certainly policing could help reduce property crimes.

We also mix up homelessness and theft. They are related but not always. I have had a few things jacked at my home. I have no doubt that the thieves were likely to be addicts. I can tell you though that they were unlikely to be homeless. I saw one thief and I have seen others on neighbors cameras etc. At least in my neighborhood, the thieves that I have seen appeared to be far to clean and well dressed to be homeless. They clearly weren't sleeping outside. One person who smashed my cars steering column and a neighbors house with a cinder block looked downright well off.

We all hate getting stuff stolen. I have had everything from a weedwhacker to a car stolen in places urban and rural, in the Eastern US and on the West Coast. I am fairly certain that my dog was stabbed this year protecting my property. That was some good work from an otherwise mediocre dog! I would love to have better answers. I often think that our entrenched feelings of moral superiority regarding all these issues keep us from really looking at things that will affect change. If we took the morality and emotional aspect out what would the discussion look like?

Violent crime is more often personal. In most cases the people know each other or know of one another. A large part of violent crime is asshole on asshole violence. I don't even care to allocate energy in that direction. Sometimes the trash takes itself out and that's fine by me. Property crime and theft is the result of what we tolerate period. It's generally not personal. It's becoming normalised in Western Washington.

 

[mark wlker]

While I fully agree with your sentiment, shooting some dirtbag for theft will result in serious legal harm to yourself (at a very minimum defending yourself against a civil suit lodged against you by his surviving family for the loss of this illustrious citizen's company).

In short, you have much more to lose than the dirtbag.

You are absolutely correct; you cannot shoot someone for theft. You cannot shoot someone in the back; regardless of reason. Someone running away is not a threat.
You cannot use more force than necessary to deter an assailant.

Know the law and know your rights.

If you shoot someone in the in your home in the dark, you must prove he was identified by a visible light source (Flashlight, weapon light, etc.) as/and a threat to your life.

Your very first phone call should be for an ambulance so "compassion" can be proved in a court of law. Call law enforcement second. Describe yourself and that an ambulance has been already requested. Do not be holding a weapon when either.

Do not be a smart ass. Be calm and respectful.

Let law enforcement know that you wish to fully cooperate but, at this time, you would rather not answer more questions until you have legal council present.

You WILL go to jail and have your weapon will be confiscated.

Get the best lawyer you can afford!
Pray.

Indeed, Semper Fi.

 

[charles sullivan]

Might be attributable in part to taking lead out of gasoline in the 1970s.

The average IQ actually has gone up as the average blood lead level has gone down. Taking lead out of gas has been a fantastic thing for the U.S. That fact is difficult to debate. We are all smarter for it.

 

[charles sullivan]

Violent crime is more often personal. In most cases the people know each other or know of one another. A large part of violent crime is asshole on asshole violence. I don't even care to allocate energy in that direction. Sometimes the trash takes itself out and that's fine by me. Property crime and theft is the result of what we tolerate period. It's generally not personal. It's becoming normalised in Western Washington.

I'm not a period guy. There is nothing that I know for 100% certain. I am not even certain that the Jets will ruin their next QB, although if history holds...........

I do know that I had a friend who had travelled to Egypt (it may have been another M.E. country). There was no crime as he saw it. The punishment for theft was exceptionally harsh by our standards, maybe a lost hand or death. Anyhow, he thought that it was great. Things were clean, and he felt safe. Maybe the solution is to have a shit ton of cops, a more efficient legal system that convicts people at higher rates and kill anyone who is caught stealing. I certainly don't want to live in Egypt or any other country with punishments that harsh. It gives a bit too much power to a government for my liking. Those countries with a low bar for physical punishment or death tend to have a larger religious presence than I care to have. To be honest my preference is exactly 0 religion.

Maybe there is a better balance than that struck by WA State or Egypt though. I guess that is my point. We seem to view things as I am 100% right and morally above the other person. I have found that more than one thing can be correct at one time. Sometimes a question has more than one answer. Sometimes there is no actual answer. There is rarely a 100% correct answer to societal problems.

I do think that we have less violent crime for the same reason that we tolerate more property crime. That is that we are just a less moralistic, religious, and black and white area than the South. This leads to less violence. Like the South, we have a political arena completely dominated by one party.

The South and middle of the country take a different more punitive view on property crimes. They are far less tolerant of it. They jail far more people comparatively. I have seen some people argue that mathematically they jail the same proportion of people that we do plus the amount that we have homeless. So, at least they have homes.

The same in not true for the Northeast. They are low in both types of crimes. Is it that the culture matters in how you learn to react to things and how you solve problems?

That is why the Northeast is so interesting to me. The states with the lowest crime rates Maine, NH and VT. are very familiar to me. They have some of the lowest rates of religiosity, the highest rates of education, and much more balanced politics. As a group of states they are in many ways the least extreme in their beliefs. Maybe educated people who are less religious tend to commit less violent and property crimes. When you have a dominant worldview that requires logic and thought and have the ability to use it, you are less likely to steal or to hurt someone physically. When you have regional politics that are not dominated by one group, potential solutions to issues are more multiple in nature.

There could also be no correlation at all. Maybe it's just so damned cold in the winter that it incentivizes work and harshly punishes being a drug addict and resultant homelessness by death.

 

[JayB]

You are absolutely correct; you cannot shoot someone for theft. You cannot shoot someone in the back; regardless of reason. Someone running away is not a threat.
You cannot use more force than necessary to deter an assailant.

Know the law and know your rights.

If you shoot someone in the in your home in the dark, you must prove he was identified by a visible light source (Flashlight, weapon light, etc.) as/and a threat to your life.

Your very first phone call should be for an ambulance so "compassion" can be proved in a court of law. Call law enforcement second. Describe yourself and that an ambulance has been already requested. Do not be holding a weapon when either.

Do not be a smart ass. Be calm and respectful.

Let law enforcement know that you wish to fully cooperate but, at this time, you would rather not answer more questions until you have legal council present.

You WILL go to jail and have your weapon will be confiscated.

Get the best lawyer you can afford!
Pray.

Indeed, Semper Fi.

Probably also worth taking the political sympathies/ambitions of the local sheriff and/or prosecutor into consideration and evaluating what their upside is to making an example out of you based on who you are and who you shot. +1 for becoming the number one pariah of the moment on social media, civil lawsuits, etc, etc.

 

[JayB]

I'm not a period guy. There is nothing that I know for 100% certain. I am not even certain that the Jets will ruin their next QB, although if history holds...........

I do know that I had a friend who had travelled to Egypt (it may have been another M.E. country). There was no crime as he saw it. The punishment for theft was exceptionally harsh by our standards, maybe a lost hand or death. Anyhow, he thought that it was great. Things were clean, and he felt safe. Maybe the solution is to have a shit ton of cops, a more efficient legal system that convicts people at higher rates and kill anyone who is caught stealing. I certainly don't want to live in Egypt or any other country with punishments that harsh. It gives a bit too much power to a government for my liking. Those countries with a low bar for physical punishment or death tend to have a larger religious presence than I care to have. To be honest my preference is exactly 0 religion.

Maybe there is a better balance than that struck by WA State or Egypt though. I guess that is my point. We seem to view things as I am 100% right and morally above the other person. I have found that more than one thing can be correct at one time. Sometimes a question has more than one answer. Sometimes there is no actual answer. There is rarely a 100% correct answer to societal problems.

I do think that we have less violent crime for the same reason that we tolerate more property crime. That is that we are just a less moralistic, religious, and black and white area than the South. This leads to less violence. Like the South, we have a political arena completely dominated by one party.

The South and middle of the country take a different more punitive view on property crimes. They are far less tolerant of it. They jail far more people comparatively. I have seen some people argue that mathematically they jail the same proportion of people that we do plus the amount that we have homeless. So, at least they have homes.

The same in not true for the Northeast. They are low in both types of crimes. Is it that the culture matters in how you learn to react to things and how you solve problems?

That is why the Northeast is so interesting to me. The states with the lowest crime rates Maine, NH and VT. are very familiar to me. They have some of the lowest rates of religiosity, the highest rates of education, and much more balanced politics. As a group of states they are in many ways the least extreme in their beliefs. Maybe educated people who are less religious tend to commit less violent and property crimes. When you have a dominant worldview that requires logic and thought and have the ability to use it, you are less likely to steal or to hurt someone physically. When you have regional politics that are not dominated by one group, potential solutions to issues are more multiple in nature.

There could also be no correlation at all. Maybe it's just so damned cold in the winter that it incentivizes work and harshly punishes being a drug addict and resultant homelessness by death.

AFAIK this has been more or less conclusively settled by a few generations of criminological data.

More cops, more arrests, and shorter prison sentences. E.g. big difference between not getting caught and getting arrested, prosecuted, and incarcerated. Relatively small difference between 2 and 3 years of time served. Same for 20 vs 30. Propensity to re-offens declines dramatically at
middle age for pretty much all violent crimes except perhaps pedophilia.

 

[SculpinSwinger]

Crime Check did respond yesterday morning. I spoke with a nice lady that emailed me a link to file a report.
Just one hitch though...you have to have and pay for Microsoft Word, which I don't need, to open the link.

I had tools stolen off a job recently. The police showed up, interviewed me and filed a report.
You should not have to buy Word to file a report! I feel your frustration.

 

[DimeBrite]

Lower birthrate and an aging population has helped to lower crime since the early 1990s. Some argue birth control was a major factor in lower crime as well. I strongly believe that elimination of tetra ethyl lead was very important. Anybody miss the "The Warriors" era of 1970s New York?

The new wave is very clearly associated with use of narcotics and their trafficking. A new generation of politicians and their voters felt very uncomfortable with the high incarceration rate due to drug use. Laws were passed to enable narcotics use of all types, vagrancy became legal, public camping allowed. County and city prosecuters in many areas proclaimed they would not enforce certain basic laws pertaining to property crime. Then the police were placed under much greater scrutiny and liability for use of force. They retired, quit, moved away, or avoid dealing with crime until blood is already spilt. The situation will improve once voters demand it from elected officials.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Crime Check did respond yesterday morning. I spoke with a nice lady that emailed me a link to file a report.
Just one hitch though...you have to have and pay for Microsoft Word, which I don't need, to open the link.

If you want to PM me I'll give you my e mail and you could send me the form and I would be happy to convert it to a form you can use be it pdf or whatever.

 

[_WW_]

Crime Check did respond yesterday morning. I spoke with a nice lady that emailed me a link to file a report.
Just one hitch though...you have to have and pay for Microsoft Word, which I don't need, to open the link.

Try Open Office.

Apache OpenOffice - Official Site - The Free and Open Productivity Suite

The official home page of the Apache OpenOffice open source project, home of OpenOffice Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw and Base.

www.openoffice.org

Benn using it for 20 years or so.

 

[Salmo_g]

While I fully agree with your sentiment, shooting some dirtbag for theft will result in serious legal harm to yourself (at a very minimum defending yourself against a civil suit lodged against you by his surviving family for the loss of this illustrious citizen's company).

In short, you have much more to lose than the dirtbag.

Not if you have Backhoes R Us on speed dial! Sorry, I just couldn't resist slipping in that plug one more time.

 

[_WW_]

Not if you have Backhoes R Us on speed dial! Sorry, I just couldn't resist slipping in that plug one more time.

Do you think he is open to the idea of franchising?

 

[Salmo_g]

Do you think he is open to the idea of franchising?

You may recall this Skagit County incident. A few years ago my sister's neighbor did shoot the local dirtbag. Said dirtbag had previously threatened to kill this neighbor, my BIL twice, and several others in the neighborhood. With all the tractors and backhoes in the immediate farming community neighborhood (Bow), you'd think the best alternative would have been more than obvious. But no, the neighbor decided to "do the right thing" by calling the Sheriff's dept. Should have been a straight forward self-defense clearance, and the neighbor should have receive a medal for neighborhood improvement. But no, the county prosecutor had political ambitions and decided to take the King County approach and prosecute the neighbor. Two years and $175,000 later the neighbor was acquitted of any and all charges, proving that no good deed goes unpunished. Hence, why I love backhoes.

 

[krusty]

You may recall this Skagit County incident. A few years ago my sister's neighbor did shoot the local dirtbag. Said dirtbag had previously threatened to kill this neighbor, by BIL twice, and several others in the neighborhood. With all the tractors and backhoes in the immediate farming community neighborhood (Bow), you'd think the best alternative would have been more than obvious. But no, the neighbor decided to "do the right thing" by calling the Sheriff's dept. Should have been a straight forward self-defense clearance, and the neighbor should have receive a medal for neighborhood improvement. But no, the county prosecutor had political ambitions and decided to take the King County approach and prosecute the neighbor. Two years and $175,000 later the neighbor was acquitted of any and all charges, proving that no good deed goes unpunished. Hence, why I love backhoes.

Hence the old saying "that it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six".

 

[Salmo_g]

I should have added that the former dirtbag hasn't stolen anything nor threatened anyone since his deserved demise. The neighborhood is very much improved. Hasn't been a single call to the Sheriff's office since, either.

 

[charles sullivan]

AFAIK this has been more or less conclusively settled by a few generations of criminological data.

More cops, more arrests, and shorter prison sentences. E.g. big difference between not getting caught and getting arrested, prosecuted, and incarcerated. Relatively small difference between 2 and 3 years of time served. Same for 20 vs 30. Propensity to re-offens declines dramatically at
middle age for pretty much all violent crimes except perhaps pedophilia.

Can you explain this a bit for me? I am not sure what has been settled. I wrote a fairly rambling post so I am not sure what you are responding to.

 

[krusty]

Another old saying..."Three can keep a secret if two are dead".

 

[wanderingrichard]

You are absolutely correct; you cannot shoot someone for theft. You cannot shoot someone in the back; regardless of reason. Someone running away is not a threat.
You cannot use more force than necessary to deter an assailant.

Know the law and know your rights.

If you shoot someone in the in your home in the dark, you must prove he was identified by a visible light source (Flashlight, weapon light, etc.) as/and a threat to your life.

Your very first phone call should be for an ambulance so "compassion" can be proved in a court of law. Call law enforcement second. Describe yourself and that an ambulance has been already requested. Do not be holding a weapon when either.

Do not be a smart ass. Be calm and respectful.

Let law enforcement know that you wish to fully cooperate but, at this time, you would rather not answer more questions until you have legal council present.

You WILL go to jail and have your weapon will be confiscated.

Get the best lawyer you can afford!
Pray.

Indeed, Semper Fi.

Ummm,
You might want to read this before you make such statements:

Houston Taqueria Shooting: Legally Justified Killing or Simply an Execution?

Importantly, at the moment this ninth shot was fired, not only was the robber now disarmed of the only weapon he was known to possess—the “pistol” recovered by the shooter—but he appears completely inert and unmoving on the ground.

legalinsurrection.com

While it deals with a recent situation in houston, several of the legal tenents used to analyze the whole sordid mess apply up here.