"This Lake's Fisheries are Managed Stupidly"

So I offered to set up a meeting, and he hasn't responded. I also shared a study that analyzing brook trout populations prior to and after a yellow perch introduction. He deleted that comment. He also told me that I don't know very much about science when I pointed out that the studies he shared don't relate to his ideas really well. The guy is grandstanding hoping the general public is too dumb or too lazy to actually check whether the science supports anything he's proposing.

Just so anyone here has the option to see why his idea about planting large trout is not very good, here's a study to review: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi0zouA8tP8AhW9GjQIHaDQCv0QFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://dalspace.library.dal.ca/bitstream/handle/10222/71050/3379-4820-1-SM.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y&usg=AOvVaw2OJHC3laZKM7-Oc6VOxSYj

Thanks for your efforts @Matt Paluch. Seems this guy is in it for attention rather than a true effort at understanding a complex ecosystem. This is the disinformation era after all, where it's all about feeding the most like-minded folks with what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.
 
It's a lookatme tube video...
I mean, that is where all truly serious discourse is held, on every subject.
:rolleyes:
 
"That proposal was met with very strong public opposition. We also proposed maintaining restrictive panfish regulations in our most important waters like Potholes, Moses, etc. and remove the others, but that wasn’t very welcomed either. So, in the end we were directed to retain all special panfish regulations that were in place in 2018."
It's hard to imagine a management strategy more unintelligent than 'what the public wants.' That said, I can think of several DFW strategies that seem to run against public sentiment and yet they continue. It strikes me as a both convenient and opaque explanation. (Not to mention that public commenting is by its very nature a self-selecting group and I'm skeptical of it actually representing the public.) But "we were directed" may very well be a reality in a bureaucratic chain of command.

If and when WDFW opens a rule making process, we’ll take another swing at removing the 25 fish limit at Fish Lake. However, as you mentioned, removing that daily limit is unlikely to have any impact. Fish Lake is very large, the yellow perch population is likely huge, and anglers probably couldn’t harvest enough fish to improve average size. Anglers don’t really want to harvest 25 <6” perch and so they likely aren’t gonna harvest more than 25. Plus, Yellow Perch are notorious for overpopulating and stunting."

All the hedges are towards a rule change not solving the problem. Interestingly, no hedges towards it causing any problems. This is where it always gets weird for me: it's not going to do enough, so we're not going to do anything. I can appreciate the reality (it wouldn't really change things in a meaningful way), but I can also appreciate the perception (we can't be bothered to even try it).

The fact that this guy refuses to meet with WDFW biologists and fisheries managers tells me he's in it for the likes rather than actually doing anything to help the situation he's complaining about.
I'm certainly not here to defend the social media crowd. IMO, monetizing the outdoors is a bad direction for both the resource and the public. But having reached out to DFW employees in both WA and OR, my experience between the two agencies has been night and day as far as willingness, transparency, etc. You appear to have a relationship with someone(s) at the WDFW that enables you to have direct and clear communication about specific situations, and I appreciate you sharing that. But my experiences could be summed up as "If I can't avoid it and how quickly can I end this." Which admittedly doesn't help my skepticism of the "feedback" as determiner.
 
I'm certainly not here to defend the social media crowd. IMO, monetizing the outdoors is a bad direction for both the resource and the public. But having reached out to DFW employees in both WA and OR, my experience between the two agencies has been night and day as far as willingness, transparency, etc. You appear to have a relationship with someone(s) at the WDFW that enables you to have direct and clear communication about specific situations, and I appreciate you sharing that. But my experiences could be summed up as "If I can't avoid it and how quickly can I end this." Which admittedly doesn't help my skepticism of the "feedback" as determiner.
There are a lot of ways you could make those kinds of contacts, if you just make an effort to go to fisheries-related events and conferences you can pretty quickly make connections with people working in the DFWs, who can refer you to managers or may have the answers themselves. For instance, the Washington-British Columbia AFS Branch is having a meeting in March, as is the Oregon AFS chapter, both will likely have representatives there from the DFWs who you can make contact/friends with.
 
It's hard to imagine a management strategy more unintelligent than 'what the public wants.' That said, I can think of several DFW strategies that seem to run against public sentiment and yet they continue. It strikes me as a both convenient and opaque explanation. (Not to mention that public commenting is by its very nature a self-selecting group and I'm skeptical of it actually representing the public.) But "we were directed" may very well be a reality in a bureaucratic chain of command.



All the hedges are towards a rule change not solving the problem. Interestingly, no hedges towards it causing any problems. This is where it always gets weird for me: it's not going to do enough, so we're not going to do anything. I can appreciate the reality (it wouldn't really change things in a meaningful way), but I can also appreciate the perception (we can't be bothered to even try it).


I'm certainly not here to defend the social media crowd. IMO, monetizing the outdoors is a bad direction for both the resource and the public. But having reached out to DFW employees in both WA and OR, my experience between the two agencies has been night and day as far as willingness, transparency, etc. You appear to have a relationship with someone(s) at the WDFW that enables you to have direct and clear communication about specific situations, and I appreciate you sharing that. But my experiences could be summed up as "If I can't avoid it and how quickly can I end this." Which admittedly doesn't help my skepticism of the "feedback" as determiner.
I've been successful with a few different agencies simply by asking questions about what is happening and why. At WDFW meetings in particular, the vast majority of people start with accusations and opposition - often displaying how little they actually understand in the process (I'm definitely not saying this is what you do, because I don't know what your experience has been). I've seen a lot of judgment from the general public. If everyone would replace that judgment with a bit of curiosity (I'm tempted to insert the Ted Lasso clip here), we'd be having more productive interactions that could lead to some really great things. I wish I knew how to get people to think this way.
 
OK. I'd like to know where he gets the idea that putting no limit on the perch would have any effect on the population in Fish Lake. I'm unaware of any situation where the fishing community ever had a significant impact on perch population. There are effective methods for eliminating perch, which mainly consist of poisoning them out of the lake and starting fresh - or you can manage for mixed species over the long run which often has periods where perch will overpopulate and then die off, then stabilize. Managing for mixed species doesn't always work, so there's not really any way to guarantee a controlled population of perch in this ecosystem. You have to remember that most people really suck at fishing, so eliminating the limit wouldn't do anything when most people aren't catching their limits to begin with.
Yes. Once the size distribution shifts toward smaller fish harvest rates decrease. Without predators like walleye and largemouth bass AND angler harvest it is very difficult to maintain high proportional size distributions in populations of highly fecund species like yellow perch.
 
So I offered to set up a meeting, and he hasn't responded. I also shared a study that analyzing brook trout populations prior to and after a yellow perch introduction. He deleted that comment. He also told me that I don't know very much about science when I pointed out that the studies he shared don't relate to his ideas really well. The guy is grandstanding hoping the general public is too dumb or too lazy to actually check whether the science supports anything he's proposing.

Just so anyone here has the option to see why his idea about planting large trout is not very good, here's a study to review: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi0zouA8tP8AhW9GjQIHaDQCv0QFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://dalspace.library.dal.ca/bitstream/handle/10222/71050/3379-4820-1-SM.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y&usg=AOvVaw2OJHC3laZKM7-Oc6VOxSYj
I reached out to him as well from my work email to offer to sit down and discuss fish management issues with him. He's had concerns in the past that we met with him on and I was hoping to be able to discuss these issues with him, in good faith, as well.
 
I reached out to him as well from my work email to offer to sit down and discuss fish management issues with him. He's had concerns in the past that we met with him on and I was hoping to be able to discuss these issues with him, in good faith, as well.
Thank you for commenting here, Mike. I've been frustrated for a while about how many anglers blame WDFW for everything they think is going on when they have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. I've had great experiences with everyone from the Region 2 staff. If anglers would spend half of the time they waste bitching online actually trying to learn about our fisheries - or dare I say even volunteer to help, we could really accomplish some great things. I know a few guys that have some pretty popular YouTube channels, and I think I'm going to ask them to start putting out some information that may be helpful in steering perceptions into more productive conversations.
 
Thank you for commenting here, Mike. I've been frustrated for a while about how many anglers blame WDFW for everything they think is going on when they have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. I've had great experiences with everyone from the Region 2 staff. If anglers would spend half of the time they waste bitching online actually trying to learn about our fisheries - or dare I say even volunteer to help, we could really accomplish some great things. I know a few guys that have some pretty popular YouTube channels, and I think I'm going to ask them to start putting out some information that may be helpful in steering perceptions into more productive conversations.
I’d say people tend to point, fair, but it’s not exactly a SuperBowl ring kind of history here.

I enjoyed the contrasting difference that the Chehalis Basin Task Force uses on raising trout. It was last years eye opener in Eel’s Spring goblin fish that got me interested. And this year I hope to see the fish in both hatcheries while volunteering in Mar/Apr. There is also a real limit in taking minimum bids ($) by design, I get that.

I’m glad it looks like you guys with the state have reached out to these YouTubers. That’s all I could hope for is a discussion with those more educated on the matter that share viewpoints. Whether the other party takes such a great offer is on them.

Thank you Mike and others doing this work.
 
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