Wood boat maintenance, products

Buzzy

Buzzy

I prefer to call them strike indicators.
Forum Supporter
I have an 8-foot pram a friend of mine built. The boat is kept outdoors and tarped with a good quality waterproof canvas tarp that keeps almost all the moisture out of the inside of the boat and most of sun off the exterior. The boat gets used pretty much year 'round. The boat was constructed from 5 ply marine mahogany, stitch and glue construction. The wood was first coated with System Three Silvertip epoxy (both sides and edges) then when built, primed and painted with System Three primer and top coat (WRU).

Two years ago I sanded the boat, inside and out and repainted it. I screwed up and didn't either 'crosslink' the paint and I didn't prime the sanded wood. Now I've got paint peeling in places.

I'm looking for alternative coatings for the boat. System Three wants $64.95 (not including tax and shipping) for a quart of their primer. Their new "top coat" retails for $73.95 a quart (not including tax and shipping). Their Silvertip epoxy resin is $51.95 and hardener $31/95 before tax and shipping.

Any suggestions for good quality but maybe more affordable marine wood primer? Marine top coat? Epoxy resin for any glass work (I remember Raka getting decent reviews on the other site)?
 
^ Huh?

I've been looking at finishing products from this company for my canoe project. Prices are a bit better, and the quality should be excellent. http://www.epifanes.com/home

My perception is that System Three has decided that on the basis of name recognition they can charge a premium for their products.
 
This stuff works and looks great on my dory's wood gunwales. It also sealed the ends of my oars where water was seeping in and discoloring the blades:

Gunwale Guard, 16oz.

Oak Orchard Canoe and Kayak, we ship anywhere in the U.S. and Canada from our great selection of kayaks, canoes, and Yakima - car and truck racks. The best prices and service.
www.oakorchardcanoe.com
 
Phil K said:
^ Huh?

I've been looking at finishing products from this company for my canoe project. Prices are a bit better, and the quality should be excellent. http://www.epifanes.com/home

My perception is that System Three has decided that on the basis of name recognition they can charge a premium for their products.
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@Zak and @Phil K - Thanks, I hope others will chime in with recommendations like yours. One thing I really like about System Three is "water clean up".... I'm not a fan of working with solvents/thinners (alkyds) but perhaps its time to rethink.
 
Agreed. I did more work with solvents in the past than I care to think about. When working with products like this now I use good protective gear and tend to treat applicators as expendable items to minimize cleanup.
 
Gunwhale Guard is the stuff Mad River Canoe recommends for their wood gunwhales. I have not needed any solvents/ thinners. Just apply with a rag. It didn't smell toxic, but who knows?
 
Phil K said:
Agreed. I did more work with solvents in the past than I care to think about. When working with products like this now I use good protective gear and tend to treat applicators as expendable items to minimize cleanup.
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And a pretty timely thread a bit back from @iveofione on protecting expensive paints - but those brushes? Pretty much disposable. My boat is not work of art, it gets banged around, my repairs to it are structural and far from cosmetic. I just want to protect the wood from rot and aging with sun damage.
Zak said:
Gunwhale Guard is the stuff Mad River Canoe recommends for their wood gunwhales. I have not needed any solvents/ thinners. Just apply with a rag. It didn't smell toxic, but who knows?
Click to expand...
I think the product you're using is for otherwise unpainted wood. Every surface of my pram is painted - except my oars, which I've coated with spar varnish a few times.
 
Buzzy said:
I think the product you're using is for otherwise unpainted wood. Every surface of my pram is painted - except my oars, which I've coated with spar varnish a few times.
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Yes, that's right. It's for unpainted gunwales or trim pieces.
 
Another company that distributes high quality marine finishing products. They don't look particularly inexpensive, but then good paint is not cheap, and cheap paint is probably not good. I like their color selections!

kirbypaint.com

George Kirby Jr. Paint Company

Makers of the world's finest marine paint for over 150 years.
kirbypaint.com kirbypaint.com
 
I have heard of people having good experiences using exterior house paint on boats. Blew my mind at the time, but paint technology has improved a remarkable amount in the last few decades. Some manufacturers are offering 20 year + lifespan on exterior paints. I’m not sure I would do it for a boat to be used in the salt, but for a lake boat, maybe.

As always with painting, prep is the key. Got to make the surface clean enough and rough enough that it will stick.The old rule also used to be to never use oil based paint over water based and vice versa, but that may have changed also.
 
SurfnFish said:
SeaHawk Tuff Stuff HIgh Build Marine Epoxy Primer, top coated with Rustoleum Marine Paint..
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Thanks for sharing your recommendation.

One thing I'm learning about wood boats and their maintenance: there are countless options available. I wondered about "top side" marine paints versus anti-fouling, bilge, and other descriptions of marine paint since the hull needs work - both epoxy (as in epoxy used with fiberglass work) and paint. I wanted to avoid primer if possible - IF possible. I also wanted to avoid alkyds and work with water cleanup type coatings (System Three - water cleanup). Back to "top side": just fine for the hull if the hull isn't submerged for more than 24 hours at a time. Seriously? My pram has never been overnighted dockside but that's long been a hope that I could find that magic lake, up there in BC, eh, where I could get up from the cabin, walk to the boat, cast off and fish without hauling the boat into and out of a lake on a daily basis.
 
anti-fouling paints contain chemicals that inhibit marine growth used for hulls parked in the water for extended periods.
Bilge paints contain chemicals to protect against the corrorsive nature of gas/diesel/oils that end up in the bilge.
When it comes to small wood boats, any quality exterior based paint will do the job, providing it is prepped and primed correctly.
Personally not a fan of latex paints for marine use, from my experience tend not to hold up as long. Have painted a dozen small boats in the past couple of decades, both mine and friends, with both rollers and sprayers. Found Rustoleum Marine Paint at $17 a quart to be an excellent product applied over the right substrate.
Reason I am a huge fan of high build epoxy primers such as Tuff Stuff (a go to in Alaska among the boatheads), is it creates a 5 to 7 mil barrier per coat, so a two coat process installs minimum of 10 mils of epoxy coating, which creates both an exceptionally long lasting waterproof barrier and a hard shell to protect the hull.
Gearhead salmon friend who trolls the rivermouth 60 days or so year from an older Smokercraft was having to empty at least a quart or two of water after every trip due to loosened hull rivets. Talked him into sliding the hull off the trailer, flipping it over, hit it with an orbital sander, two coats of Tuff Stuff followed by two coats of Rustoleum Marine. That was over a decade ago, the boat hasn't leaked a drop yet.
Do it once, do it right, go fishing.
 
SurfnFish said:
anti-fouling paints contain chemicals that inhibit marine growth used for hulls parked in the water for extended periods.
Bilge paints contain chemicals to protect against the corrorsive nature of gas/diesel/oils that end up in the bilge.
When it comes to small wood boats, any quality exterior based paint will do the job, providing it is prepped and primed correctly.
Personally not a fan of latex paints for marine use, from my experience tend not to hold up as long. Have painted a dozen small boats in the past couple of decades, both mine and friends, with both rollers and sprayers. Found Rustoleum Marine Paint at $17 a quart to be an excellent product applied over the right substrate.
Reason I am a huge fan of high build epoxy primers such as Tuff Stuff (a go to in Alaska among the boatheads), is it creates a 5 to 7 mil barrier per coat, so a two coat process installs minimum of 10 mils of epoxy coating, which creates both an exceptionally long lasting waterproof barrier and a hard shell to protect the hull.
Gearhead salmon friend who trolls the rivermouth 60 days or so year from an older Smokercraft was having to empty at least a quart or two of water after every trip due to loosened hull rivets. Talked him into sliding the hull off the trailer, flipping it over, hit it with an orbital sander, two coats of Tuff Stuff followed by two coats of Rustoleum Marine. That was over a decade ago, the boat hasn't leaked a drop yet.
Do it once, do it right, go fishing.
Click to expand...
Domo arigato gozaimasu for your product description/application and use.
 
I’ve been really happy with Raka epoxy and rustoleum topside paint. I used porch paint on the outside of my drifter, but it’s not as durable as the topside. When I repaint, I’ll go topside all around.
 
one last pitch for Total Boat Epoxy from Jamestown is it comes in two pump containers, one pump from each is a perfect mix, can order it in either slow or fast catalys,t and being in pump containers gives it a long shelf life. The biggest mistake folks use with epoxy is not precisely measuring the catalyst to epoxy ratio, and adding too much catalyst will actually prevent it from hardening, the opposite of polyester resins which kick faster with plus catalyst. And key to using any epoxy is to stir in the hardner for a full two minutes, nothing less.
 
SurfnFish said:
one last pitch for Total Boat Epoxy from Jamestown is it comes in two pump containers, one pump from each is a perfect mix, can order it in either slow or fast catalys,t and being in pump containers gives it a long shelf life. The biggest mistake folks use with epoxy is not precisely measuring the catalyst to epoxy ratio, and adding too much catalyst will actually prevent it from hardening, the opposite of polyester resins which kick faster with plus catalyst. And key to using any epoxy is to stir in the hardner for a full two minutes, nothing less.
Click to expand...
Thanks again. I use a digital scale when mixing epoxy so I'm within a fraction of a gram for the 2:1 mix ratio and I do stir and stir the mix!
 
SurfnFish said:
anti-fouling paints contain chemicals that inhibit marine growth used for hulls parked in the water for extended periods.
Bilge paints contain chemicals to protect against the corrorsive nature of gas/diesel/oils that end up in the bilge.
When it comes to small wood boats, any quality exterior based paint will do the job, providing it is prepped and primed correctly.
Personally not a fan of latex paints for marine use, from my experience tend not to hold up as long. Have painted a dozen small boats in the past couple of decades, both mine and friends, with both rollers and sprayers. Found Rustoleum Marine Paint at $17 a quart to be an excellent product applied over the right substrate.
Reason I am a huge fan of high build epoxy primers such as Tuff Stuff (a go to in Alaska among the boatheads), is it creates a 5 to 7 mil barrier per coat, so a two coat process installs minimum of 10 mils of epoxy coating, which creates both an exceptionally long lasting waterproof barrier and a hard shell to protect the hull.
Gearhead salmon friend who trolls the rivermouth 60 days or so year from an older Smokercraft was having to empty at least a quart or two of water after every trip due to loosened hull rivets. Talked him into sliding the hull off the trailer, flipping it over, hit it with an orbital sander, two coats of Tuff Stuff followed by two coats of Rustoleum Marine. That was over a decade ago, the boat hasn't leaked a drop yet.
Do it once, do it right, go fishing.
Click to expand...
I just watched a couple "how to" videos by Sea Hawk Tuff Stuff about their epoxy which leads to a question (or two or three):
1. When you overcoated the Tuff Stuff, what was your window of time between the last coat of Tuff Stuff and the Rustoleum? If I understood Tuff Stuff's instructions, <24 hours and no sanding required. Concur?

Thanks
Pat
 
Buzzy said:
I just watched a couple "how to" videos by Sea Hawk Tuff Stuff about their epoxy which leads to a question (or two or three):
1. When you overcoated the Tuff Stuff, what was your window of time between the last coat of Tuff Stuff and the Rustoleum? If I understood Tuff Stuff's instructions, <24 hours and no sanding required. Concur?

Thanks
Pat
Click to expand...
Right, finish coat before 24 hours have elapsed. I usually do two coats of TS, followed by the finish coat. Bulletproof barrier..
cheers

Tuff Stuff Application | How to Articles | Bottom Paint Store

www.bottompaintstore.com www.bottompaintstore.com
 
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