Rod repair costs

Evan, I'm pretty sure that Sage offered an unconditional warranty in the 1990s that was "no fault and no time limit." And there was no fine print. I think rods that were sold under that warranty should be honored with no time limit as a matter of honest marketing and integrity, even if it means a financial loss for the company. I thought it was crazy to offer that kind of warranty, but it apparently was the product of competition. One data point I have to go on is a friend who worked in a fly shop sold me a Sage rod that retailed for $315 for a mere $129 and told me that both the shop and Sage made money that day. So I figured that Sage was charging plenty for those warranties, but I make no claim of knowing all the relevant facts.

I don't make rod purchasing decisions based on warranties, harkening back to the time when rods were made of fiberglass and even high end rods only cost about $75. If one of my bamboo rods breaks, my only recourse is to cry. They cost well beyond pocket change, and they come with no warranty. Especially when the rodmaker had died.
 
Salmo_g said:
Evan, I'm pretty sure that Sage offered an unconditional warranty in the 1990s that was "no fault and no time limit." And there was no fine print. I think rods that were sold under that warranty should be honored with no time limit as a matter of honest marketing and integrity, even if it means a financial loss for the company. I thought it was crazy to offer that kind of warranty, but it apparently was the product of competition. One data point I have to go on is a friend who worked in a fly shop sold me a Sage rod that retailed for $315 for a mere $129 and told me that both the shop and Sage made money that day. So I figured that Sage was charging plenty for those warranties, but I make no claim of knowing all the relevant facts.

I don't make rod purchasing decisions based on warranties, harkening back to the time when rods were made of fiberglass and even high end rods only cost about $75. If one of my bamboo rods breaks, my only recourse is to cry. They cost well beyond pocket change, and they come with no warranty. Especially when the rodmaker had died.
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Yeah I admittedly don't know all the details of what is going on at FarBank or what their policies were 25-30yrs ago. Just what's been happening the last 15yrs or so.
 
Salmo_g said:
Evan, I'm pretty sure that Sage offered an unconditional warranty in the 1990s that was "no fault and no time limit." And there was no fine print.
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That was my understanding when I bought my rpl in 90 or 91...
 
Bruce Baker said:
Do you live in a somewhat reasonable distance from the Sage factory? I ask because several years ago, I brought a Sage One in for repair and they did not charge me. I do not know if it would be the same in your situation, but it couldn't hurt to try.
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I can actually walk there in 10 minutes and drive there in about 3 (live on Bainbridge).

I have walked in rods a number of times and they have not charged me. Wondering with the new policy of that will still be the case. I’ve also had them fix a number of rods so I may have worn out my good will :)..
 
If this is the case and FarBank has no responsibility for replacing/repairing a Sage rod because it was made by a company that no longer exist. Does this mean that if I change my name I no longer own my house so I don’t have to make payments but I can still live in it. 😹
 
Salmo_g said:
Evan, I'm pretty sure that Sage offered an unconditional warranty in the 1990s that was "no fault and no time limit."
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That was exactly the case. They first changed their warranty to require $40 for a repair in the early 2000s (2002?). I found out when I was sending a 7136 back for a loose reel seat and they wanted $40 to repair it. I argued that they were changing the terms of their lifetime unconditional warranty by adding a condition (pay $40 for the repair or pound sound) and that they could administer the warranty as agreed to by only requiring a fee to service newer rods as identified by their model line or the rod's serial number for older lines still in production. I got nowhere with that of course but the ordeal did leave a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. A deal is a deal as far as I am concerned.

I always thought these warranties were a bit crazy on their part but if they offered those terms I would oblige and use it if needed. I remember an RPL was about $350 in the mid 90s and thought it was extremely expensive.
 
Pescaphile said:
That was exactly the case. They first changed their warranty to require $40 for a repair in the early 2000s (2002?). I found out when I was sending a 7136 back for a loose reel seat and they wanted $40 to repair it. I argued that they were changing the terms of their lifetime unconditional warranty by adding a condition (pay $40 for the repair or pound sound) and that they could administer the warranty as agreed to by only requiring a fee to service newer rods as identified by their model line or the rod's serial number for older lines still in production. I got nowhere with that of course but the ordeal did leave a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. A deal is a deal as far as I am concerned.

I always thought these warranties were a bit crazy on their part but if they offered those terms I would oblige and use it if needed. I remember an RPL was about $350 in the mid 90s and thought it was extremely expensive.
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I hear ya. $350 in 1992 roughly equates to $722 in 2022. https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1992?amount=350
 
jasmillo said:
I can actually walk there in 10 minutes and drive there in about 3 (live on Bainbridge).

I have walked in rods a number of times and they have not charged me. Wondering with the new policy of that will still be the case. I’ve also had them fix a number of rods so I may have worn out my good will :)..
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I attempted to walk in last week with my rplxi 1090 that I had built for me at Patrick's .... with a broken tippet . And it's closed to the public in response to covid ... I was redirected to online repairs which I grudgingly emailed but so far no response and they haven't answered the phone. The guy at the door doubted they still had a replacement blank.
 
mr.badexample said:
I attempted to walk in last week with my rplxi 1090 that I had built for me at Patrick's .... with a broken tippet . And it's closed to the public in response to covid ... I was redirected to online repairs which I grudgingly emailed but so far no response and they haven't answered the phone. The guy at the door doubted they still had a replacement blank.
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I was told on a factory tour that they had mandrels for every rod they have ever build, but I’m guessing the materials needed to wrap the mandrel may not be availably anymore.
 
Bagman said:
I was told on a factory tour that they had mandrels for every rod they have ever build, but I’m guessing the materials needed to wrap the mandrel may not be availably anymore.
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I have been told that as well and in fact had a truly ancient 2 piece 9 weight sage section replaced a few years ago, but this time they sounded skeptical and it's been nearly a week and still no response from the repair dept.
 
mr.badexample said:
I have been told that as well and in fact had a truly ancient 2 piece 9 weight sage section replaced a few years ago, but this time they sounded skeptical and it's been nearly a week and still no response from the repair dept.
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When I had to have a piece replaced on my 1390-4 about 1 1/2 years ago it took a long time really cant remember how long but. They would not let me walk it in so I drove into Poulsbo and mailed it to Bainbridge Island that cost me $35, but Sage did not charge me anything and mailed it back to me.
 
When I went on the tour a couple years ago they showed us the wall of out of production blanks. They are out of some of the older ones. They said they can't get the material for those any more. When they run out of those blanks your SOL.
 
Scudley Do Right said:
When I went on the tour a couple years ago they showed us the wall of out of production blanks. They are out of some of the older ones. They said they can't get the material for those any more. When they run out of those blanks your SOL.
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The exact same graphite/resin prepregs from 20 years ago are not available, but all major rod shops keep a variety of materials in stock or can get them to reproduce a broken section’s action close enough (though maybe not the paint color). Whether they do so is more a question of customer service / hassle / profit margin. Custom rod shops can even satisfactorily fix sections of competitor’s rods … for a price.
 
I kind of agree with others who have posted. It seems like they are reneging on a promise made when they sold the rods with a lifetime warranty, even if it was 30 years ago. I think a better move would be to apply a new warranty policy to new rods being introduced that protects them from having to try and find materials and mandrels to fix the rods 30 years from now. But to change their warranty policies after the fact seems like bad form.

Orvis limits their warranty to 25 years. I think that is reasonable. I would probably even be OK with 10 years. I agree that "lifetime" is an unsustainable model, but the transition to a new model needs to be more honest, not just overnight "your old rods are no longer covered" or "we're upping the fee, so it is cost prohibitive to have your rod fixed". I am probably less inclined to buy a new Sage rod now than I was a few days ago......
 
chief said:
I kind of agree with others who have posted. It seems like they are reneging on a promise made when they sold the rods with a lifetime warranty, even if it was 30 years ago. I think a better move would be to apply a new warranty policy to new rods being introduced that protects them from having to try and find materials and mandrels to fix the rods 30 years from now. But to change their warranty policies after the fact seems like bad form.

Orvis limits their warranty to 25 years. I think that is reasonable. I would probably even be OK with 10 years. I agree that "lifetime" is an unsustainable model, but the transition to a new model needs to be more honest, not just overnight "your old rods are no longer covered" or "we're upping the fee, so it is cost prohibitive to have your rod fixed". I am probably less inclined to buy a new Sage rod now than I was a few days ago......
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Ding ding ding!
 
Seeing it from the other side of this transaction, I get it. Yes, reneging on a policy from the past is a bad look... But if you saw the volume that those policies are used and abused, plus adding in the extreme rise in cost of goods... It is a choice most rod brands have had to make in order to survive. Only changing the policy moving forward helps only part of the problem. When there are tens, to hundreds of thousands of rods out there being used, if even a fraction of those come back, which they do, and always more than you plan for, it's a big hit.

But the choice is to A: Risk going out of business because of the hit you're taking on these old policies due to how things are today, or B: Update the policy to survive and hope people understand the situation. I suppose there's a C as well, which is the route I took: case by case basis. I don't run the wtty dept where I work, but I basically wrote the policy.
 
I think businesses should be able to promise one thing, and then go ahead and not do do what they promised because it's in their best interest to do so...

...Said no consumer ever...

Sage offered an unconditional lifetime guarantee at one point, there is no reason for them to be able to renege on that agreement because they feel it's not working for them now.

They sold a lot of rods via that guarantee, and made a lot of money doing so, as well as got a goodly part of their market share in part via that guarantee.

YMMV
 
Mossback said:
I think businesses should be able to promise one thing, and then go ahead and not do do what they promised because it's in their best interest to do so...

...Said no consumer ever...

Sage offered an unconditional lifetime guarantee at one point, there is no reason for them to be able to renege on that agreement because they feel it's not working for them now.

They sold a lot of rods via that guarantee, and made a lot of money doing so, as well as got a goodly part of their market share in part via that guarantee.

YMMV
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Yeah, I don't fully know where I stand on the topic, but fully understand it on both sides. I don't know Sage's fincancials on the matter, so I'm just talking big picture from my experience in the industry. But I don't think consumers would be any happier if a fly rod company ceased to exist because they continued to replace massive quantities of broken rods at a loss. Nobody wins in that situation either.

I don't nor have never worked for Sage/Redingon/FarBank, so can only speculate. But I've seen first hand how bad these policies go for a few brands. So I get it. I also get it from the consumer side. So it's a tough one to take a hard stance on.
 
Forgot to add one thing: FarBank did just have a big change at CEO (from Yeti I believe) who brought over a whole team that shook things up in the marketing and operations. Might be why there have been a lot of changes going down lately.
 
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