Low budget Skagit/Sauk CnR monitoring

S

Smalma

Life of the Party
Yesterday I expressed my concerns that just transferring funds from the warm water game fish fund to WDFW fish, wildlife and conservation would necessarily or even likely would result in funding for the Skagit/Sauk CnR fishery monitoring. When questioning things I like to supply an alternative. Here is my idea for a lower cost monitoring that would full fill the Feds data need to elevate the fishery, I have to say I don't love my idea but think it will serve as springboard for discussions to fill the idea. What will be needed is input from more tech savvy than this fossil.

My idea which I'm sure is not new would rely on the relatively small size of the fishery, a passionate user group, and the newly to be implemented app that could be used as a "punch card". The key data need in a fishery like Skagit/Sauk CnR is the number of fish handled, and the app would do that. Here is the outline for the proposal.

The next opportunity (next year?) would be a volunteer fishery were only those anglers that agree to the fishery requirements would be allowed to take part in the fishery. They would have to agree to use the new app to report the details of their day on the water in really time. This would provide "hard data" on the days fished and the number of fish handled by those volunteers. The other part of that volunteering would as part of the enrollment in the program would be a short questionnaire where the enrollee would supply their answers to the questions typically asked by the roving WDFW samplers; that include their zip code, gear choice, etc.

As WDFW moves to using app they will likely need to prove the utility of it. A small fishery is ideal candidate to conduct side by side comparison of the old and new approach and the above proposal can be sold in this way. I think this comparison may be done more cheaply than the meal deal previously used. May be able to get by with a single clerk would make angler counts twice a day and spot interviews as time allows. Currently WDFW is fly the area at least once (maybe twice depending on the fishery timing) during the fishery for steelhead spawning which would provide at least one aerial angler count.

Once some of the more talented folks here have had a chance truth and polish the above idea then it would be time for a group of those volunteers to play hard ball. Presenting the proposal to the WDFW, Commission, legislators, media etc. takes an effort.

Good luck
curt
 
A great idea curt. Most of us carry phones on the water to take pics. I use the fishWA app to keep track of the regs and the Gaia app to figure out river access. It would be very easy to have a fish catch app to in which you record your catch. This would provide real time info to the dept. Would love to see the app replace punch cards altogether.
 
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I think the idea of it being a volunteer/ trial is creative, promising and a little bit scary. Does it line up with any known policy for the department. Has the department stated anywhere that they would like to move towards using anglers directly monitoring fisheries? I think they may have with kill fisheries.

The idea is in line with WW's idea that you have to answer the question for them. Creativity is not the strong suit of government agencies.
 
Im all for it!

I remember reading that WDFW didn’t trust the data provided by a monitoring app which I thought was hilarious because they are asking fishermen at the boat launch if they caught steelhead which is like asking a chipmunk where they hid their acorns.

One time I saw a guy whisper his catch to the creeler and he was very adamant that the creeler not share the number. I think there is a good chance an app could work well because people don’t have to get interviewed out loud about their catch at a busy boat launch.

But oh nevermind, WA state can’t handle anything new like this. They will just raise taxes so you pay much much more for the exact same thing.
 
This coming license year (starting in April) WDFW is launching there MyWDFW mobile app that will allow anglers to report their salmon and crab catches on the water. What I'm proposal is that app be adapted for the CnR season, In theory the result would be a census rather than an estimate. Since the fishery is a CnR season and if all the anglers (volunteers) are using the app there should not be any larger bias of what the anglers are reporting electrically than what they are telling verbal to the checkers.

With a full summer of experience with app WDFW should have a chance to work out the bugs this approach could be ready to implementation next spring if the Skagit steelhead forecast is large enough.

Ultimate goal is to undercut the excuses for not having a season while pushing for an approach that may produce at least as good results as past approaches for less $$.

curt
 
In a word or two, self monitoring. Need to get the co-managers to sign off on it.
 
For the co-managers having a census rather than an estimate would be the selling point; would not be much different than how they report some of their catch.

I suspect the first year or two having some information from a "creel census" to compare might be required.

curt
 
Smalma said:
As WDFW moves to using app they will likely need to prove the utility of it. A small fishery is ideal candidate to conduct side by side comparison of the old and new approach and the above proposal can be sold in this way.
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I agree with this point and am generally supportive of using technology when it can lower costs and provide better results than manual methods. Right now though the app seems to be causing a lot of user frustration. Reviews are dismal for both the Android and Apple platforms with getting logged in, and slow loading once logged in. I am not sure if the login issue is only the first time or an ongoing problem. I started to install it but backed away. The need for and method to permanently declare either a paper or digital format, with a process that apparently requires creating an app password in WILD (not sure if it can be the WILD ID password) then verification by the app of the app password created on WILD may be the issue. It seems to me that if I could go into the app, enter my WILD username and password it would be A LOT more user-friendly. And what would be even more frustrating is if I can actually use the WILD credentials but the instructions are written so poorly that it doesn't appear I can do that.
 
Salmo_g said:
I think the app idea, along with using a drone for a couple aerial angler counts per week would provide a statistically tight estimate of fish handled for ESA purposes.
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The drone idea seems like a huge cost savings to me. Aircraft that carry humans are really expensive to operate.

I'd love to see the cost breakdown of the monitoring as in how much does the aircraft cost and how much do the checkers cost.

It would seem to be an excellent test case for how willing anglers are to self report digitally. If we have a basic # of anglers from the drones, the state could determine the amount of people who fail to report from that number.
 
Brian Miller said:
I agree with this point and am generally supportive of using technology when it can lower costs and provide better results than manual methods. Right now though the app seems to be causing a lot of user frustration. Reviews are dismal for both the Android and Apple platforms with getting logged in, and slow loading once logged in. I am not sure if the login issue is only the first time or an ongoing problem. I started to install it but backed away. The need for and method to permanently declare either a paper or digital format, with a process that apparently requires creating an app password in WILD (not sure if it can be the WILD ID password) then verification by the app of the app password created on WILD may be the issue. It seems to me that if I could go into the app, enter my WILD username and password it would be A LOT more user-friendly. And what would be even more frustrating is if I can actually use the WILD credentials but the instructions are written so poorly that it doesn't appear I can do that.
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I downloaded it on my Samsung 24 LE and have had no problem with it. It shows my licenses. I also downloaded the app for regs and maps, and the license app will send you to it.

I bought my license for next year last week. So, so far so good! No idea on the iPhone, but it looks pretty good to me.
 
Remember this proposal would be set up with volunteer anglers only (no limit on the number of those volunteers) that have agreed to use the app. As such the results from the app would potentially provide both the number of fish handled as well the of man-days fished.

If there is the desire to also some more traditional monitoring then the use of a drone in place of counts from a copter is an excellent idea.

Curt
 
flybill said:
I downloaded it on my Samsung 24 LE and have had no problem with it. It shows my licenses. I also downloaded the app for regs and maps, and the license app will send you to it.

I bought my license for next year last week. So, so far so good! No idea on the iPhone, but it looks pretty good to me.
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So I take it you declared you were going digital and purchased a digital license?
 
flybill said:
Yes, the paper licenses have always sucked, so I thought I would give it a try.
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Thanks for the encouagement.
OK, I already had the MyWDFW app loaded and created an account tied to my WILD account but couldn't (or didn't) login before.
For the benefit of anyone else who is interested...
I went into the WILD system and declared in 2026 I wanted a digital license, purchased the digital license, Catch Cards, and the Di$cover Pa$$. Then I opened the MyWDFW app on the phone. It logged me right in with a fingerprint and quickly loaded GMU data table.
Then It came right up with an message stating that I had a current paper license, but it showed my 2026 license purchases and their valid dates.

I like how "Field Mode will be enabled when the connection is poor or unavailable Your data is saved to the device... disabled when back online".
There are also links to the the Fish WA App and View (e)Regulations(.com). I can also purchase 2026 endorsements in the app if I wish.

Not bad...
 
They might as well just go to that up north. Plenty of folks on the river from what I have seen. Personally I support that decision. WDFW can suck it
 
It’s good to see folks actually brainstorming fixes instead of just screaming into the void about the budget. I’m all for "out of the box" ideas like drones or the MyWDFW app. Anything to keep us in the water and fishing.

But we’re running straight into a brick wall with the feds and the co-managers. WDFW’s hands are tied by the FMEP, and that’s basically a legal death grip with NOAA. Even if the state wanted to use our app data, here’s why it probably won't fly:

NOAA is obsessed with encounter rates. Let’s be real—anglers are great at posting "hero shots," but nobody logs the days they got skunked or the fish they broke off in the rocks. Without actual creel clerks on the bank to verify the numbers, NOAA just views our self-reporting as "anecdotal BS" and tosses it out. They won't risk an ESA permit on our "honor system."

The Tribes are at the table for all of this. They monitor their fisheries with professional crews, and they expect the state to do the same for us. If we show up suggesting a "volunteer model," it looks like a massive step backward in accountability. It’s a fast way to get a "no" at North of Falcon.

I love the tech idea, but the Sauk is, as the designation says, "Wild and Scenic." The second a drone buzzes a gravel bar near an eagle nest, you’re looking at federal harassment charges. Also, any drone pilot flying will need a special permit to fly over most of the area. This is in addition to the FAA rules for "official" monitoring which are a total nightmare compared to just flying for fun. (source: I have a commercial drone pilot license)

Half the spots we fish on the Sauk are total dead zones. If the app can't ping a tower for real-time tracking, WDFW can't manage the impact quota. If we accidentally go over the limit because the data was lagging, the feds pull the plug and the season is dead for good.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but we’re talking about a total rewrite of federal management plans, not just changing WDFW’s mind. Unless the state actually coughs up the funding for real monitoring, we’re just spinning our wheels while 2027 slips away.

Keep the ideas coming, but we’ve gotta be realistic about the red tape.
 
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