Pucker up

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If you read between the thread lines you will clearly see the Trickle Down faithful. Try reading this article and see if you would agree this line playing out over and over again:



Someone tell me how the $63 million windfall the oil companies are making while I watch my gas tank trickle down! You'd think the billion these companies received to kill alternative energy sources would be enough!
 
I'm' retired now but gotta laugh at the "government employees are union which makes cutting the fat neatly impossible" I don't know about the rest of govt., but at King County it was nearly impossible to keep the staff necessary to provide the services demanded by KC residents.

Whether directly serving residents (like Public Health or Transit) or internal support agencies like IT, we were all searching for better ways to provide services with less staff because there just wasn't funding for the positions.

There was a time back in the 70s and 80s (I'm told) where they were fat with staff (same time period when they called Boeing the Lazy B). But ever since I started in the 90s we were at the bleeding edge of staff. You were expected to be doing a full time job and half of someone else's just to keep your position.

The 'lazy govt employee' is an enduring fallacy where people seem to look at how long, and how many public service employees, it takes to accomplish a project and make statements like "Me and Bubba could have had that done in 2 hrs and it took them a week!". These employees take so long typically because of all the processes and red tape they have to follow.

I'll tell you what really bleeds govt resources and it's usually some dimwit manager or director not understanding why some processes take so long and wanting to make things easier/cheaper. They make changes based on their simplistic vision and end up FUBARing a working process and causing endless headaches and wasted time for those around them. I could tell you stories of failed payroll systems that cost the taxpayers millions. :(

The same situation exists in public utilities and private industry. Just look at Seattle City Light- they didn't provide for fish passage on their dams by claiming migratory salmonids did not utilize habitat above the dams (the cheap option). Now Tribes have successfully sued them and they'll have to retrofit fish passage. Millions of dollars and guess who gets to pay??? Seattle City Light customers. :(

Govt will get your money, whether in sales and property tax (WA), income and property tax (OR).

Here's a conundrum for you - a hypothetical state govt charges a high license tab fee on vehicles and the money in part supports highway maintenance. People complain so they reduce the tab costs by half and sell all the good highways to private entities who then charge tolls to use their roads.

It's a for-profit enterprise, so the fees are 5 - $10 and you may go thru several tolls on a long trip. But the alternative is to use the pothole ridden backroads. Are you happy? After all, taxes went down.

IMHO, there's no easy answer. Whether public or private, corrupt/incompetent leaders seem to be a recurring theme we can't escape.
This post is so long I can tell a government employee wrote it with a focus group.

I could introduce you to plenty of essentially useless government agencies around me with plenty of cull for a workforce. I worked for a municipality for awhile and can say firsthand there was plenty of waste of taxpayer resources. Hell you were discouraged from doing your job. Your mileage may vary but I have seen firsthand. So don't give me the every government worker is a champ. It's just not so. And you're right in many cases the solid ones leave and go private where they can make better money. So yeah good help is hard to keep.
 

It's pretty hard, impossible actually, to argue large corporations aren't paying less than ever.

Thank the lobbyists, media and money that is speech...
 
Relative to income and population growth, Washington’s budget has actually declined by 60% overall. From 1995 to 2025, the state’s yearly operating budget shrank from 1.55% to 0.63% of total personal income for every one million residents (adjusted for inflation).
I'm not disputing this, but man, it sure is hard to believe. When I was a kid the state sales tax rate was 4%, and then 5%, which generated a huge protest. Yet under that tax structure, WA education was among the best in the nation, and WA highways and roads were near the top, nationally. True, the state provided fewer services, but I don't recall anyone saying that we needed more. I read that middle class income has actually declined in constant dollars. Nonetheless, static incomes have increased astronomically due to inflation. And we buy ever more expensive consumer goods and services, generating huge tax revenues. And for that we're near the top in spending per student but get students doing worse on standardized testing and roads that I recently read rank among the worst in the nation. So it seems like the math isn't adding up. Which causes so many of us to lean toward the "WA doesn't have a revenue problem; WA has a spending problem." I'm sorta' good at math, so this makes me want to see the spreadsheets and how the values are calculated that go into them.
 
Corporations (not individuals running the corporation) pay income tax not on income but on net, taxable profits. It's irrelevant the amount of income if expenses (capital and operational), investments, depreciation, tax credits, etc. exceed the amount of income--ie. no profit, no taxes.
What you're describing here is 'Revenue', Income is what remains after expenses, investments,depreciation etc.

Revenue is the total money generated from sales (the "top line"), while profit is the money remaining after subtracting all expenses from revenue (the "bottom line"). Income is generally used interchangeably with profit (specifically net income), representing earnings after costs. Revenue measures sales volume, whereas profit indicates financial health.

Words have meaning....
 
Corporations (not individuals running the corporation) pay income tax not on income but on net, taxable profits. It's irrelevant the amount of income if expenses (capital and operational), investments, depreciation, tax credits, etc. exceed the amount of income--ie. no profit, no taxes.
Understood, wife and I finished up our careers operating a two person consulting business registered as a Delaware corporation, and spent almost two decades on the Finance Committee of a 501C3 non-profit medical school where we operated the books in complete transparency.
Conversely, when I moved into high tech where I managed a 22 country real estate portfolio, each tax season I'd spend a couple of weeks working with my team and corp tax lawyers on finalizing operating expenses and capitol expenditure reports. In 2004 those reports became part of a Sarbanes-Oxley investigation that initially focused on 1B in cash from a Euro business sale having been parked offshore and generating non-taxed revenue, and just expanded from there.
There's a reason why 5B is spent each year on lobbyists to make sure corporations and the Uber wealthy never have to pay their fair share.
 
I'm not disputing this...

That'd be a wise choice...you are familiar with both my research abilities and analytical prowess, are you not ?

😁

I believe you've seen me debate these things before on other forums...and talk about people's Moms if the going gets heated.

🤣

I'll see if the links can yield the underlying data when I get a chance. It is generally conceded that income growth in the state has been disproportionately concentrated in the lowest taxed populations ( upper few percent of earners), so it seems reasonable to assume the conclusions made regarding budget relative to income and population growth are somewhat accurate, but if the thread doesn't get locked I'll dig around for the underlying numbers.
🙂
 
That'd be a wise choice...you are familiar with both my research abilities and analytical prowess, are you not ?

😁

I believe you've seen me debate these things before on other forums...and talk about people's Moms if the going gets heated.

🤣

I'll see if the links can yield the underlying data when I get a chance. It is generally conceded that income growth in the state has been disproportionately concentrated in the lowest taxed populations ( upper few percent of earners), so it seems reasonable to assume the conclusions made regarding budget relative to income and population growth are somewhat accurate, but if the thread doesn't get locked I'll dig around for the underlying numbers.
🙂
You mom is so....
 
Related to transportation:

My automobile insurance just went up $1200 per year.

Talk about puckering up.

Makes tabs/registration increase a rounding error.
 
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Related to transportation:

My automobile insurance just went up $1200 per year.

Talk about puckering up.

Makes tabs/registration increase a rounding error.
Huh. How many cars and drivers on that policy? I have three cars and three drivers on my Progressive policy and one of those drivers is my 25 yo son. I pay $1492 per year.
 
Huh. How many cars and drivers on that policy? I have three cars and three drivers on my Progressive policy and one of those drivers is my 25 yo son. I pay $1492 per year.

4 cars. 2006 Honda Ridgeline, 2019 RAV4, 2009 Honda Civic, 2023 Crosstrek.

Last 2 are my daughter's cars. Both over 25 living at home.

BTW - the Ridgeline was the most expensive last year. HUH!
 
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That'd be a wise choice...you are familiar with both my research abilities and analytical prowess, are you not ?

😁

I believe you've seen me debate these things before on other forums...and talk about people's Moms if the going gets heated.

🤣

I'll see if the links can yield the underlying data when I get a chance. It is generally conceded that income growth in the state has been disproportionately concentrated in the lowest taxed populations ( upper few percent of earners), so it seems reasonable to assume the conclusions made regarding budget relative to income and population growth are somewhat accurate, but if the thread doesn't get locked I'll dig around for the underlying numbers.
🙂
I'm just waiting for all caps...
 
I think it's the gross weight fees that are driving up the cost. @Rob Allen said it's for a truck. For fun I just checked online for my 2006 1/2T Silverado, and looks like it's going to be $137 total this year, $120 of that is Gross Weight fees. If Rob's got a heavy 3/4 or 1T, I can see it maybe approaching $200.
I believe you are correct in GVW taxes. (Really not too get political) The state has been struggling with WSDOT fees, since they didn't plan properly for when they are "encouraging" people to go to EV's, but were not taxing them for "fuel" taxes to pay for road maintenence like all other vehicles, then they realized that EV's weighed more and are causing more wear and tear on the road, so laws were changed to tax heavier vehicles. Unfortunately that means taxes get taxed more (actually twice fuel and weight).

Hold on @Rob Allen is only going to get worse!
 
I'm just waiting for all caps...
You'll find those 'all caps' in a VAN down by the RIVER...with no tabs on it...
;)
 
I doubt that my 2005 Prius weighs more than the vast majority of vehicles on the road. It still gets about 48 mpg on the highway and uses zero gas in town driving. I still have to pay more for registration even though I have a lighter than most vehicle, doing my bit for the environment, and saving gas for the remainder of the gas hog vehicles to use. Totally fair!
 
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