NFR Alcohol going out of style

[Capt Insano Emeritis]

I did that, two within a few hours. One Federal Way, one Renton. Four before I was 30 (one in high school). Seemed to always get off easy. I'm a jerk, a lucky jerk. Must have a gardian angle. Just can't drink, or make a good decision after. Life's been getting better every day for the last 30+ years without.

37 years married divorce I did not want . Ex and I were winos. Divorce depression. Dui jall in the cop central of WA … Ellensberg…. S15,000- device in truck…. Eff me very much… been alcohol free for 7 years. Definition of me a functioning alcoholic… yeah right!

Could have filled the back of a pick-up truck with the weed I smoked during my youth. During most of the 70's a handful of us long haired surfers who owned trail horses lived on acreages within a coastal valley just south of Half Moon Bay where we all grew, compared, traded seeds. The Hanalei surf crew loved the weed I'd bring over during winter Kaui trips in the mid 70's.
When the kids came and the charge to raise them as well as possible sunk in, I decided they'd need to learn their vices on their own and not from me, so put it down and took up Chardonay's and Pinot Noir's.
As to weed being a gateway drug, it likely is for some as addictive personalities will always be attracted to drugs and alcohol, and often both.
Have good friends who have smoked weed since young teens, still with us, have well done professional and personal lives. And had good friends that were good for a six pack every night of the week until liver cancer and heart attacks took them out.
Moderation with all vices is always good throttle management.

The message here is choice and as you said personal management unless you find out much later that managing a genetic persuasion is not that easy. Addiction comes easier to some less likely to manage any damn thing. The legal pay back system for DUI’s in WA are very tough. The slap upside my noggin was what I needed. My issue was less physical than psychological.

 

[dflett68]

I had noticed this just anecdotally the past 10yrs or so, and now it's starting to show up in a lot of reports, studies, and in the obvious closing of a lot of longstanding business in the industry.

View attachment 177333

Gen Z is rejecting alcohol almost entirely. I have a 17yr old step son and with him and his friends, even the thought of imbibing is completely foreign. Like "why would we want to do that?" I know the reasons are many: vapes, marijuana, and just plain seeing alcohol as a thing past generations did... But it's crazy to see how massive of a difference we're seeing in their generation in particular.

Even the older generations are slowing way down. Myself included. While I'm not 100% "quitting," my intake the past 15yrs or so has slowed considerably. Beer is still one of my favorite things on the planet to drink, but I also find myself going weeks or months without any. The last time I had more than 2 within a few hours was probably 15+yrs ago also. When I'm hitting it "hard," I may have like 2 a week. Thinking now... I can't think of the last beer I even had.. maybe Thanksgiving-ish? I have a 6 pack of locally brewed pilsner in my fridge that's only half-consumed, and I think I bought it back in September. I know I'm not the only one like this.

Heck, I even set my kegerator up to serve home-carbonated sparkling mineral water

the umbrella is risk aversion and insular/virtual social experiences. they don't drink, they don't get a driver's license, they don't get a job, they don't move out, they don't have sex. not judging, it's the numbers. ok, i am judging, but the numbers are what they are.

 

[Phil K]

What the heck, I’ll pitch in another individual data point. Like so many of us, I LOVE beer; the taste and also that sloppy euphoric relaxation that comes when the ETOH kicks in. I’ve also realized that my ability to metabolize the stuff isn’t what it used to be, and if I drink more than one, or too close to bedtime, my first thought on waking up is “Oh, crap, why did I do that again?”

Over the past year or so, I’d cut way down, because I also realized how much more I can accomplish without drinking, and that I’m old enough that time is a precious resource not to be wasted.

The last time I drank was in mid December last year. I was down in Santa Barbara at a celebration of life for my mother, had a few glasses of wine, then back at my sister’s house got absolutely falling down drunk on Jameson. It snuck up on me- really. : ) The next day, was of course a complete loss, and I decided that a month off was called for. It’s now been close to six weeks, and I just don’t have the desire to drink right now. I wouldn’t say I’m done, but doubt it will ever be a regular thing again either.

Pretty much all of my regular friends drink, and most of ‘em smoke weed, but I can socialize fine without participating.

One final rant: NA beer is too danged expensive. I might enjoy a crisp NA malt beverage, but the curmudgeon in me thinks it shouldn’t cost as much as the real thing.

 

[Roper]

My issue is that IPA isn't really my beer of choice, but it's the best-tasting NA style because all the hoppiness makes it taste like regular beer. I'm much more into the german lagers and english brown ale types. Much tougher to do an NA in those styles that even comes close.

Try Deschutes Black Butte N/A

 

[Evan B]

the umbrella is risk aversion and insular/virtual social experiences. they don't drink, they don't get a driver's license, they don't get a job, they don't move out, they don't have sex. not judging, it's the numbers. ok, i am judging, but the numbers are what they are.

There is some truth to that whole list of things. I've seen plenty of studies on the Gen Z "dating/romance" thing, and it's very similar to drinking. They just aren't. Our teenager and his group of friends; none have dated. To him, it's a foreign concept. He has no idea why he would bother. Which, I don't understand given biological urges, but it's likely one of the many unforeseen biproducts of a generation whose entire lives have been shaped by life being online.

He's just now, at the age 17, starting to do more on his own outside of online life. So we'll see where that takes him. But I have good friends with kids in college or even graduated from college, and they aren't much different. The 20somethings I coach at the gym are the same: all single, all sober, most living with their parents (which is also an economic byproduct, but we're already going off on a big enough tangent here).

 

[Evan B]

Try Deschutes Black Butte N/A

I have a few times. It's not bad, but I have no real craving for it. One of those I'll drink if offered, but never was inspired enough to stock the fridge.

 

[charles sullivan]

There is some truth to that whole list of things. I've seen plenty of studies on the Gen Z "dating/romance" thing, and it's very similar to drinking. They just aren't. Our teenager and his group of friends; none have dated. To him, it's a foreign concept. He has no idea why he would bother. Which, I don't understand given biological urges, but it's likely one of the many unforeseen biproducts of a generation whose entire lives have been shaped by life being online.

He's just now, at the age 17, starting to do more on his own outside of online life. So we'll see where that takes him. But I have good friends with kids in college or even graduated from college, and they aren't much different. The 20somethings I coach at the gym are the same: all single, all sober, most living with their parents (which is also an economic byproduct, but we're already going off on a big enough tangent here).

There seems to be a theme of risk aversion?

 

[Clean Willy]

I guess I consider myself one of the lucky ones that has never had a problem with drinking. I do not like to feel out of control (and HATE throwing up) so never have more than two drinks at a sitting or in a day. Well I can't say never but it's been decades and can count the times in my life that I have been 'drunk' on one hand. Tried dry January last year and felt no different, slept no different. The Mrs. and I now loosely stick to a glass of wine or two every other day and have no plans to stop.

 

[charles sullivan]

This idea of moving away from "the town" is really always super interesting to think about. Meaning (and this is not a criticism of FunLover) that the town you (collective, not specific) grow up in does suck at a certain point in time and is linked in our brains as probably remaining static and still sucking along with the dopey characters who inhabited it for all time.

Or does the town evolve and change for the better, the people who sucked previously grow up and become kinder, more capable? And we just don't bother to see or concede that it can change.

Or is it somewhere in between?

I know a lot of us left "the town" and never went back for any reasonable duration of time (i.e. This Boy's Life, by Toby Wolff)

On the other hand "the town" I hated and left at 18 is so much more dynamic, fascinating and interesting now compared to what it was then. Maybe because it is easier for me to see opportunity and risk, simpler to relate to people who are good vs not good, easier to avoid temptations and so on. Maybe the offenses I took back then were immature. Maybe "the town" is more of a 1986-1988 snapshot that is faded and unrecognizable now, just as unrecognizable as the kid in those snapshots is to who I am now....

Then again, maybe "the town" really does suck both as a state of mind and geographic location and we keep that story alive because it is well just so damn motivating, a Homerian Odyssey so full of more meaningful adventures that would never have happened had you not left in the first place....I mean I would never go back, but can think of plenty of places to get stuck in now that suck way more than "the Town"

maybe sucking on the content of social media (or consistent alcohol or weed) is basically the equivalent of getting stuck in "the town"

Have you considered writing an oped somewhere? Honestly, your two posts on this thread are really good. I think that you challenge people to think in the kindest possible manner.

 

[skyriver]

the umbrella is risk aversion and insular/virtual social experiences. they don't drink, they don't get a driver's license, they don't get a job, they don't move out, they don't have sex. not judging, it's the numbers. ok, i am judging, but the numbers are what they are.

I know a few 20 somethings that have no desire to drive. As someone that grew up on a farm, driving a tractor across a county road at10 years old, driving the hay truck at 12, etc, my mind can't understand it.
However, every time I drive through my suburban town that has every popular fast food joint, a Safeway, a Fred Meyer and one of busiest Costco stores in the metro area I get it. It's busy, people are not nice and they're terrible drivers. The Tesla drivers alone make it a challenge. So bad...

 

[Evan B]

I know a few 20 somethings that have no desire to drive. As someone that grew up on a farm, driving a tractor across a county road at10 years old, driving the hay truck at 12, etc, my mind can't understand it.
However, every time I drive through my suburban town that has every popular fast food joint, a Safeway, a Fred Meyer and one of busiest Costco stores in the metro area I get it. It's busy, people are not nice and they're terrible drivers. The Tesla drivers alone make it a challenge. So bad...

I had the same start to my driving. Grew up on the farm, so I was driving by the time I could reach the pedals. We made our son get his license when he turned 16, and he's taken to driving himself everywhere and doing his own thing, which was our goal. Many of his friends followed suit.

 

[Burt Dagger]

I’ll cut the youth a break - if I was facing today’s economic, environmental, and political headwinds as a high schooler or college kid, I’d be doing some hardcore despair drinking. Sure, there are other generational drugs of choice, but I think it’s commendable that on average alcohol is less of a crutch for the up-and-comers.

 

[Salmo_g]

I had the same start to my driving. Grew up on the farm, so I was driving by the time I could reach the pedals. We made our son get his license when he turned 16, and he's taken to driving himself everywhere and doing his own thing, which was our goal. Many of his friends followed suit.

Sorta' same farm kid (or stump ranch, as we called it) experience. Part-time hired hand "Tex" taught me to drive the truck at age 12. My stepdad rented some acreage from an elderly couple a few miles away. By age 14 it was my job to drive feed and hay over the gravel county roads to care for the livestock. I thought I was normal. Naturally got my driver's license the day after turning 16. Fast forward to my own kids turning 16 during the 1990s; it never occurred to me to give them the choice of not getting driver's licenses as soon as they were able. I was so relieved to retire from "mom & pop taxi service." I was astounded that some of their classmates still didn't have driver's licenses when they graduated from high school at age 18. What kind of parent would tolerate that, based on the transportation workload alone?

 

[Mossback]

Humans have used mind altering substances since the beginning of recorded history, and likely before that. Given that fact, there must be some ingrained desire, lizard brain repository of memory type thing that keeps humans and that sort of substance use going.
A bell curve type look at things... some do not do well with these substances, and others do fine, as in the majority, vast majority do not become addicts, or abuse these substances to large degrees.
Went out to dinner and a couple glasses of wine last night, it was pleasant with my meal.


Don't know much about the younger crowd and what they do, my nieces and nephews ages are 24-31 and they all have jobs, live on their own, date, and have a drink at times...if you count White Claws...which to me are a horrible excuse for alchohol.
But hey...to each his own...or they/them/their own.

 

[Fourbtgait]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned concerning younger generations, environmental factors to go along with everything mentioned so far.
Several years ago (30+?) the conversation was puberty changes in kids with the leading factor being processed foods, shampoos, etc, impacting hormones. Fast forward to now, different generations which had children, changes to parents hormones could impact their children, coupled with other environmental changes since then.
We can postulate forever what/why, basing everything on our own past, which is immaterial to current life styles.

 

[krusty]

I think a hell of a lot of parents now tend to not push their children into getting a driver's license simply because of the rather daunting financial impact of insuring a teenage driver.

 

[skyriver]

Sorta' same farm kid (or stump ranch, as we called it) experience. Part-time hired hand "Tex" taught me to drive the truck at age 12. My stepdad rented some acreage from an elderly couple a few miles away. By age 14 it was my job to drive feed and hay over the gravel county roads to care for the livestock. I thought I was normal. Naturally got my driver's license the day after turning 16. Fast forward to my own kids turning 16 during the 1990s; it never occurred to me to give them the choice of not getting driver's licenses as soon as they were able. I was so relieved to retire from "mom & pop taxi service." I was astounded that some of their classmates still didn't have driver's licenses when they graduated from high school at age 18. What kind of parent would tolerate that, based on the transportation workload alone?

Exactly!

 

[Matt B]

Fast forward to my own kids turning 16 during the 1990s; it never occurred to me to give them the choice of not getting driver's licenses as soon as they were able. I was so relieved to retire from "mom & pop taxi service." I was astounded that some of their classmates still didn't have driver's licenses when they graduated from high school at age 18. What kind of parent would tolerate that, based on the transportation workload alone?

My folks didn’t let me get my DL until I was 17 (in the 1990s). It drove me crazy at the time, but it might have kept me or someone else alive. As a youngster, I never had an issue with being overly risk averse, if you catch my drift.
They drove me around some but I also had friends (and girlfriends) who helped out at that point. I guess they trusted them more than me. Or maybe that’s not quite fair. Raising kids can be complicated.

 

[Breck]

I've backed way off on my beer consumption. I LOOOOVE beer but don't drink it much as I'm type 2 diabetic and need to take it easy on carbs. I pretty much stick to whisk(e)y if I'm having a drink or two. I like wine, but it's fairly carby as well. If I'm having a few drinks, I'm reduced to the hard seltzers. They taste like TV static with a faint whisper of fruit, but a lot better for my blood sugar.

 

[FinLuver]

This idea of moving away from "the town" is really always super interesting to think about. Meaning (and this is not a criticism of FunLover) that the town you (collective, not specific) grow up in does suck at a certain point in time and is linked in our brains as probably remaining static and still sucking along with the dopey characters who inhabited it for all time.

Or does the town evolve and change for the better, the people who sucked previously grow up and become kinder, more capable? And we just don't bother to see or concede that it can change?

Or is it somewhere in between?

I know a lot of us left "the town" and never went back for any reasonable duration of time (i.e. This Boy's Life, by Toby Wolff)

On the other hand "the town" I hated and left at 18 is so much more dynamic, fascinating and interesting now compared to what it was then. Maybe because it is easier for me to see opportunity and risk, simpler to relate to people who are good vs not good, easier to avoid temptations and so on. Maybe the offenses I took back then were immature. Maybe "the town" is more of a 1986-1988 snapshot that is faded and unrecognizable now, just as unrecognizable as the kid in those snapshots is to who I am now....

Then again, maybe "the town" really does suck both as a state of mind and geographic location and we keep that story alive because it is well just so damn motivating, a Homerian Odyssey so full of more meaningful adventures that would never have happened had you not left in the first place....I mean I would never go back, and value most of the stuff that happened beyond it's perimeter, but can think of plenty of places to get stuck in now that suck way more than "the Town" ever did.

maybe sucking on the content of social media (or consistent alcohol or weed) is basically the equivalent of getting stuck in "the town"

For me “the town scene” was the local bars - 3 with live bands 5 days per week - the other part of the “town scene” were the people/friends I would hang with.