Starter Two-Handed set up?

Mud&$alt72

Mud&$alt72

Smolt
I'm seriously considering trying a Two-handed rod this Winter. I mostly fish from the beach for sea-runs and salmon, but I'd like to be able to fish rivers for Steelhead as well. I've been considering the Echo Boost Beach, or the Echo Swing in a 7 or 8wt, Orvis Clearwater, LLBean, (something in the $200 to $300 range). I'm proficient at single hand, and can get good distance, but being able roll cast, and into the wind would be nice. I have a full frame Orvis Battenkill reel that I plan to use for the running line and a shooting head.

I sort of know the differences between switch and spey, and overhead rods, but I'm wondering if rod length really is a big factor in learning to cast these things. I have no opinion on rigging, (Skagit, Scandi, doesn't matter to me at this point). Any basic advise is greatly appreciated.
 
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One more thing to keep in mind, not all rods are equal. I have a Winston air TH 8wt and comparing that to a gloomis NRX + 8wt, the NRX is going to be able to handle more raw weight applied to the blank before it snaps. So depending on what rods you fish, your opinion could be skewed one way or another on this topic.
 
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Yhandi said:
I catch big fish. 15 pound steelhead on a 7wt is doing a disfavor for the fish. I fish where I want. I cannot throw 12.5ft t17 on a 7wt, this means I can't fish everything I want to, and my rod is limiting that. 20 pound chrome coho are no match for a 7wt. Go hook one on big water and tell me otherwise. I don't fish to have the best experience with the medium sized fish, im going for the biggest fish on the river. I don't know about longer rods slowing down your stroke. even if you move slightly slower with a longer rod, the tip could still be moving faster, as you are moving in a circular direction (greater radius with same speed as rod with smaller radius rod with bigger radius tip is moving more m/s . Furthermore, a 15 inch trout is still fun on a 9wt. Not as fun as on a 4wt, but it's still pretty fun. My point is, to call a 7wt versatile when a 9wt can do everything it can AND MORE means it's not the "versatile" pick. And yes, I have been spooled by large coho before on a 7wt. I think you can get away with steel heading with a 7wt, but an 8wt is a much better tool for the job imo. And not smoked by big cuts and bulls, but certainly they have been able to take long runs.
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Well, I don't know where you're fishing that you get to worry about twenty pounders all the time, but I'd say that's not the case for me or most of us. The number of steelhead I've caught on fly and gear combined would be in the thousands, and I have not personally topped twenty pounds yet. In all my trips, I've helped land TWO steelhead over 20lb, neither of which were a problem on standard stuff.

I also catch a LOT of coho, mostly on gear. Biggest one I've ever caught was 15lb.

I guess I don't know how one specifically only targets the biggest fish in the river, but more power to you. I've been at this for some time, worked in the industry and managed pro staffs+guide programs, and never had anyone say these things. I'd say though that you're suggesting a full time solution to a 1% of the time "problem" for most. Definitely not issues someone just starting out on 2-hander fishing should be concerned with. There's a reason that 9wt rods are not showing up in many manufacturers' 2-hander lineups these days. Still, if you're using a heavy enough leader, you should be able to put plenty of side pressure on just about any fish to get them turned whether it's a 7wt, 8wt or 9wt.

9wt 2-handers have their place, and it's with big lines and big tips, but even then, T-14 will be more than enough in the water most people fish. Down the line if the person here who's just getting in to two hand fishing ends up in a situation like you find yourself in where T17 and 20lbers are the norm, then yeah, stepping up makes sense.
 
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I do have the TFO Pro short spey 7/8....sadly, that's all I can provide since I bought it this last year for a handful of runs on the coast where I can't quite reach the proper distance at certain levels with my SH skagit setup that I usually use out there...haven't even lined it up yet though.

....still trying to wrap my head around anyone getting smoked by SRCs or bulls on any TH 7wt....let alone any SH 7wt without some serious operator error there... 🤷‍♂️
 
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clarkman said:
I do have the TFO Pro short spey 7/8....sadly, that's all I can provide since I bought it this last year for a handful of runs on the coast where I can't quite reach the proper distance at certain levels with my SH skagit setup that I usually use out there...haven't even lined it up yet though.

....still trying to wrap my head around anyone getting smoked by SRCs or bulls on any TH 7wt....let alone any SH 7wt without some serious operator error there... 🤷‍♂️
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Didn't mean smoked, just meant they put some work into the rod.
 
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A few questions for @Mud&$alt72
Which batenkill do you have? IV? V? IV spey? V spey? Pretty different capacities across those that may dictate which grain window your going to want to focus on if you're dead set on using that reel.

Are you talking big broad steelhead rivers, or smaller coastal rivers? If there's a particular river or if the rivers you'd fish mostly fall into one of those categories it might move the needle a little bit on length and grain window.
 
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Evan B said:
9wt 2-handers have their place, and it's with big lines and big tips, but even then, T-14 will be more than enough in the water most people fish. Down the line if the person here who's just getting in to two hand fishing ends up in a situation like you find yourself in where T17 and 20lbers are the norm, then yeah, stepping up makes sense.
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I think you make a great point here honestly. What newbie is going to do that haha. 20s are not the norm, but I run into one or two depending on the year. I also fish rivers that mostly are not in Washington. lot of fast high water I deal with and I throw t17 a lot. I spend a good chunk of time on the OP though. Still, just for example. Peroway Renegade 9wts are awesome. They are extremely light, crisp, and powerful. 12ft rod, comparable to some 8wts out there for sure. So depending on what rod you are using too. My point is, if you are talking versatile, it's not going the to be the less powerful rod in this case, as the heavier rod can do everything the 7wt can and a bit more. I still don't see how it does not make sense that fresh coho coming into rivers on the tide are no match for a 7wt.
 
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Yhandi said:
I think you make a great point here honestly. What newbie is going to do that haha. 20s are not the norm, but I run into one or tow depending on the year. I also fish rivers that mostly are not in Washington. I spend a good chunk of time on the OP though.
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The OP is on my 'one of these days' list, along with the Cowlitz, Skagit, etc. I'm based in Tacoma, and usually only get time to fish for one day.
 
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fatbillybob said:
I forgot....one other thing. Before you invest in a 2 hand rod see if you like the 2 hand speycasts. There is quite a learning curve with wonky timing. Even experienced casters have days where their casting just falls apart. I have never had one of those days casting a singlehander. Before you buy a 2hander just buy a single hand spey line and see if you like it. OPST and RIO have singlehand spey lines. In singlehand spey the left hand haul is substituted for the lower hand on a 2 hand rod. In steelheading the most important thing is to get your fly fishing. If you can do that with your single there is no reason to go to a 2 hander.
You aren't missing anything.
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Thanks for this. I've been considering throwing a spey line on my 8wt, and I probably will. What I didn't mention in my original post, is I injured my casting shoulder over a year ago, and even with PT and yoga, casting for more than a few hours, gets old quick.
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
Thanks for this. I've been considering throwing a spey line on my 8wt, and I probably will. What I didn't mention in my original post, is I injured my casting shoulder over a year ago, and even with PT and yoga, casting for more than a few hours, gets old quick.
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Makes total sense then that you're entering the TH rod realm.
 
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Long_Rod_Silvers said:
A few questions for @Mud&$alt72
Which batenkill do you have? IV? V? IV spey? V spey? Pretty different capacities across those that may dictate which grain window your going to want to focus on if you're dead set on using that reel.

Are you talking big broad steelhead rivers, or smaller coastal rivers? If there's a particular river or if the rivers you'd fish mostly fall into one of those categories it might move the needle a little bit on length and grain window.
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I have the Battenkill IV, It was gifted to me, without the box from a friend. don't know if it's spey specific.
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
Thanks for this. I've been considering throwing a spey line on my 8wt, and I probably will. What I didn't mention in my original post, is I injured my casting shoulder over a year ago, and even with PT and yoga, casting for more than a few hours, gets old quick.
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I think learning spey is easier starting with a single hand spey. you have less to adapt to. Also it's really fun, you can put a haul into your spey cast and such.
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
I have the Battenkill IV, It was gifted to me, without the box from a friend. don't know if it's spey specific.
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I ask because there's a IV spey and a IV. If it's full frame I want to say it's the IV spey. Be worth looking into because the IV would probably be better suited to balance out a trout spey, whereas the IV spey is more in line with what you're looking into.
 
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Mud&$alt,

Lots of opinions and lots of experience in the recommendations you're getting. Since you're just getting into 2-handed casting and fishing, think of it the way we advise a person getting their first single hand fly rod to do some trout fishing. Nobody ever went wrong buying a 9' 5 wt rod to go trout fishing. It's the most popular because it is the most versatile. It won't do everything, but it will do most things that the trout fisherman needs to do. Evan recommended an Echo 13' 7 wt with good reason, and I second that recommendation. It is a good rod to learn 2-hand casting (short rods are more difficult to learn Spey type casting because of their inherent timing). And it will do most Spey related fishing. Use it for a couple years, and when you realize you haven't caught any fish where you felt undergunned, then go ahead and buy an 8 wt because you dream that you will catch a fish so big that your 7 wt can't handle it. There is a reason why 13' 7 and 8 wt 2-hand rods have become the all around work horses of the PNW.

Let's understand that no more than 1% of steelhead are 20 pounds or larger (unless you're fishing a VERY few select rivers), and about 98% of all coho are 12 pounds and smaller. Yhandi has an opinion that is well suited when you only catch fish that make up less than 1% of the total steelhead and coho populations. He is right that one cannot comfortably cast 12.5' of T-17 with a 7 wt 2-hand rod. He also invokes the name of the ". . . great Ed Ward . . ." I personally know Ed and recall him writing that, "if you need more than 9' of T-14 for steelhead fishing, you're fishing the wrong water." Sure, there are exceptions, but you can take that statement to the bank. Don't over think this. Get the Spey equivalent of that 9' 5 wt trout rod, a 13' 7 wt. There are many good options, but the Echo is a good choice for budget, build quality, and performance.
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
What I didn't mention in my original post, is I injured my casting shoulder over a year ago, and even with PT and yoga, casting for more than a few hours, gets old quick.
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Yhandi said:
Anyone else start getting tennis elbow in their lower hand when they cast big spey rods? I can't fish my 14'4 for multiple days in a row, I start getting horrible flair ups. Smaller rods I have no problem with.
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A spey rod isn't magic. It will not help your shoulder. It can help your shoulder and elbows and body in general with some mods. The reason the switch rod is 101/2 to 12 ft. Is because that's about the limit of what can be cast 1 hand. The switch is a hybrid allowing both 1 and 2 hand casting. Then the lines are heavy. Speylines are the flyrod equivalent of casting a 1 ounce weight on your conventional tackle.

Where a 2hand can take pressure off your body is using an optimized 2 hander in overhead casting using a compact stroke. That's elbows about kidney level, one back cast to load and 1 forward cast activating the rod with the lower hand and casting a shooting head like Rio OBS. If fishing steel you want a rod with more a scandi action casting scandi line using an underhand cast method which is very compact and keeps elbows at kidney level. Search on you tube casting by Klaus Frimor or Goran Anderssen for the compact scandi style and then search "Linespeed jedi" for traditional spey casts and see how you can have more injury because traditional casting is just bigger motion and more body activation.
 
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