Starter Two-Handed set up?

Mud&$alt72

Mud&$alt72

Smolt
I'm seriously considering trying a Two-handed rod this Winter. I mostly fish from the beach for sea-runs and salmon, but I'd like to be able to fish rivers for Steelhead as well. I've been considering the Echo Boost Beach, or the Echo Swing in a 7 or 8wt, Orvis Clearwater, LLBean, (something in the $200 to $300 range). I'm proficient at single hand, and can get good distance, but being able roll cast, and into the wind would be nice. I have a full frame Orvis Battenkill reel that I plan to use for the running line and a shooting head.

I sort of know the differences between switch and spey, and overhead rods, but I'm wondering if rod length really is a big factor in learning to cast these things. I have no opinion on rigging, (Skagit, Scandi, doesn't matter to me at this point). Any basic advise is greatly appreciated.
 
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Your options are many. If you are primarily beach fishing. I would say get boost beach, and just throw a short OPST head on that it will will throw darts ill bet.
 
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DanielOcean said:
Your options are many. If you are primarily beach fishing. I would say get boost beach, and just throw a short OPST head on that it will will throw darts ill bet.
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The Boost Beach comes in an 11ft and a 13ft, would the longer rod be better to learn on?
 
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I'm going to strongly advise against a Boost Beach. It is NOT a spey rod. It's not meant for any kind of spey casting, and honestly, isn't even the best overhead-casting beach rod ECHO makes.

Go with the ECHO Swing. I'd default to the 13' 7wt for most all winter steelheading applications, especially when learning.
 
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Evan B said:
I'm going to strongly advise against a Boost Beach. It is NOT a spey rod. It's not meant for any kind of spey casting, and honestly, isn't even the best overhead-casting beach rod ECHO makes.

Go with the ECHO Swing. I'd default to the 13' 7wt for most all winter steelheading applications, especially when learning.
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Ah hell let me have one of those Boost Beach's, ill cast it.
 
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Would a newbie benefit by choosing a Echo TR2 or Full Spey over the Echo Swing? From my trout and beach rod experience over the past year, I've found the action and line tending to be the most important thing and wonder if this will also be the case when selecting a full spey rod?
 
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jeradjames said:
Would a newbie benefit by choosing a Echo TR2 or Full Spey over the Echo Swing? From my trout and beach rod experience over the past year, I've found the action and line tending to be the most important thing and wonder if this will also be the case when selecting a full spey rod?
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Way too many factors at play. I'd stay away from the TR2 personally. Not at all a fan of that rod for much of anything and would personally (and do) pick the SWING over it. The Full Spey is an excellent rod, but there's no need to spend that much until you get some experience as the things that make it great aren't going to be utilized until you get your cast figured out.
 
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Will you be casting overhead or spey type from the beach.? If overhead from the beach, consider a fast action switch rod. It's near impossible to find a "do it all" rod..
 
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Wetswinger said:
Will you be casting overhead or spey type from the beach.? If overhead from the beach, consider a fast action switch rod. It's near impossible to find a "do it all" rod..
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I don't expect any rod to do both especially well. I'm just saying that mostly I cast from the beach, and would like to get more distance, throw bigger streamers, and not have to worry so much about my back cast getting caught in the trees at high tide. So, yes, I'd like try spey casting. As for using if for Salmon and Steelhead on rivers, it would be nice, but I don't do much of it. I already have a single hand 7wt(my beach rod) and 8wt(my steelhead/salmon rod). From the feedback I'm getting, a spey rod looks like the best choice(?).
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
The Boost Beach comes in an 11ft and a 13ft, would the longer rod be better to learn on?
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My two cents, if you are learning skagit casting, shorter rods are the way to go. It's much easier to control and allows you to be that much closer to the bank. Look on Facebook Market place. I have never cast any of echos spey rods, but they get a good rap from what I hear. One rod I'll say definitely don't pick up is the Redington Dually, that thing is hands down the worst rod I have ever cast. I also think 7wts are grossly overrated, I think that they are fun but they can't handle chrome coho. 8 or 9wt is always the way to go, gives you options for heavier tips and is much more versatile. If you really think that it's that much more fun to have fish feel a little bigger on the smaller rod go for it. But my 7wt has gotten smoked by big cutthroat and bulls before lol. It's all preference, but if you end up really liking spey (you will) then you are going to go out and want to buy an 8 or 9wt. 9wts also give you an option for catching kings in the rivers, even those can be a little light depending on what 9wt we are talking about here. Not saying the 7 is a wrong choice, but you are more limited.
 
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Mud&$alt72 said:
I don't expect any rod to do both especially well. I'm just saying that mostly I cast from the beach, and would like to get more distance, throw bigger streamers, and not have to worry so much about my back cast getting caught in the trees at high tide. So, yes, I'd like try spey casting. As for using if for Salmon and Steelhead on rivers, it would be nice, but I don't do much of it. I already have a single hand 7wt(my beach rod) and 8wt(my steelhead/salmon rod). From the feedback I'm getting, a spey rod looks like the best choice(?).
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A spey rod for spey casting.?, yup..
 
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Yhandi said:
My two cents, if you are learning skagit casting, shorter rods are the way to go. It's much easier to control and allows you to be that much closer to the bank. Look on Facebook Market place. I have never cast any of echos spey rods, but they get a good rap from what I hear. One rod I'll say definitely don't pick up is the Redington Dually, that thing is hands down the worst rod I have ever cast. I also think 7wts are grossly overrated, I think that they are fun but they can't handle chrome coho. 8 or 9wt is always the way to go, gives you options for heavier tips and is much more versatile. If you really think that it's that much more fun to have fish feel a little bigger on the smaller rod go for it. But my 7wt has gotten smoked by big cutthroat and bulls before lol. It's all preference, but if you end up really liking spey (you will) then you are going to go out and want to buy an 8 or 9wt. 9wts also give you an option for catching kings in the rivers, even those can be a little light depending on what 9wt we are talking about here. Not saying the 7 is a wrong choice, but you are more limited.
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Thank you. I have no problem whatsoever going as heavy as a 9wt, and I've heard the same about Redington.
 
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Yhandi said:
My two cents, if you are learning skagit casting, shorter rods are the way to go. It's much easier to control and allows you to be that much closer to the bank. Look on Facebook Market place. I have never cast any of echos spey rods, but they get a good rap from what I hear. One rod I'll say definitely don't pick up is the Redington Dually, that thing is hands down the worst rod I have ever cast. I also think 7wts are grossly overrated, I think that they are fun but they can't handle chrome coho. 8 or 9wt is always the way to go, gives you options for heavier tips and is much more versatile. If you really think that it's that much more fun to have fish feel a little bigger on the smaller rod go for it. But my 7wt has gotten smoked by big cutthroat and bulls before lol. It's all preference, but if you end up really liking spey (you will) then you are going to go out and want to buy an 8 or 9wt. 9wts also give you an option for catching kings in the rivers, even those can be a little light depending on what 9wt we are talking about here. Not saying the 7 is a wrong choice, but you are more limited.
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I'm gonna just simply say I strongly disagree with most of this, especially the 7wt stuff. If you're getting smoked on a 7wt spey rod then you're doing something very wrong. That's basically the standard for the PNW for a reason.

I also find it much easier to learn on a 13 footer than an 11 footer because it more naturally slows down your stroke and lets you feel it load the blank.
 
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I have both the echo TR and echo swing. My swing model is the shorter version, 11-7. Both great for the money. The TR has tons of power. The swing is lighter, but also shorter. I've never used the full length one. I think I prefer it most days, also cheaper by about $100 I think
 
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Lots of good points above except the 7wt is the swiss army knife of spey rods. I have not been outgunned using one. If I fished kings I would get a 9wt just because 7wt 8wt are pretty close. I fish beach every week and fish rivers for steel and have 4 two hand rods but only need 2 of them. If beach is what you do then get a 2 hander optimized for overhead casting. Personally I did not like how echo beach boost cast at all. Others love them. For lack of better terms or precise terms I'm going to use more singlehand terms....slow to fast. A real spey rod say 14ft tend to be slow. They kind of wind up as the rod load and lobs the head like a catapult. I actually don't like that feel. It sort of why when trying to learn to cast them everyone says slow down, be slow, slow slow slow. Two handers optimized for overhead casting are like singlehand rods but instead of double haul for distance you active the lower handle. That means these two hand rods are faster to cast overhead just like single hand rods. That's why I don't like the echo. It feels slow to me while my Beulah Opal optimized for overhead feels relatively fast and I can punch out long casts easier than double hauling. Real speys tend to be over 13 ft.. overhead optimized 2 handers tend to be "switch rod " length around 11-12 ish. Some are called switchrods. Singlehand caster really don't think about lines like 2 hand casters. Lines in the 2 hand world is everything. These lines barely used some never hitting water are bought and sold among Speycasters like a cheap hooker. That's because casting styles, how fished, and rods fished are heavily influenced by the lines cast. If you need to get deep steelheading many go to skagit casting. Skagit casting is like having a golf ball at the end of your tippet and you really can't overhead cast it but you can get it moving and "lob it." The real term for this kind of skagit is constant tension continuous motion as promoted by the great Ed Ward. As slower speyrod works with this method best. The scandinavians scandi cast with scandi lines ala...Goran Andersson. Their casting stroke is more compact and favors a faster 2 hand rod. I use a 12'3" NAM rod which has a faster action similar to a Loop rod paired with scandi line because that's how I fish. I can then get away with switch rod lengths and make long casts as far as I can with my 13'6" ACR or 14'1" Sage speyrod. Once I learned that the 2 later rods have become unneeded. Then some use mid and long belly spey lines and long speyrods 14'+ with 15 and 16 ft roods very common. Rod length is chosen based on river size and how far you need to cast. Personally, my line management goes to cr$p past 80ft. cast. I see no reason nor do I fish rivers big enough to need a 15ft rod and 110ft cast.

A switch rod, speyrod, or 2 hander optimized for overhead casting cann all overhead cast, skagit cast, scandi cast, and do all 9 casts of the rehlm just like any Honda will get you from A to B. But if you are helping you neighbor move you really wish you had a truck and if you are doing trackdays you really want a sports car. If you can only pick one rod, pick it based on how you fish the most. That's a lot to unpack. Good luck with your journey!
 
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I forgot....one other thing. Before you invest in a 2 hand rod see if you like the 2 hand speycasts. There is quite a learning curve with wonky timing. Even experienced casters have days where their casting just falls apart. I have never had one of those days casting a singlehander. Before you buy a 2hander just buy a single hand spey line and see if you like it. OPST and RIO have singlehand spey lines. In singlehand spey the left hand haul is substituted for the lower hand on a 2 hand rod. In steelheading the most important thing is to get your fly fishing. If you can do that with your single there is no reason to go to a 2 hander.
You aren't missing anything.
 
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Evan B said:
I'm gonna just simply say I strongly disagree with most of this, especially the 7wt stuff. If you're getting smoked on a 7wt spey rod then you're doing something very wrong. That's basically the standard for the PNW for a reason.

I also find it much easier to learn on a 13 footer than an 11 footer because it more naturally slows down your stroke and lets you feel it load the blank.
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I catch big fish. 15 pound steelhead on a 7wt is doing a disfavor for the fish. I fish where I want. I cannot throw 12.5ft t17 on a 7wt, this means I can't fish everything I want to, and my rod is limiting that. 20 pound chrome coho are no match for a 7wt. Go hook one on big water and tell me otherwise. I don't fish to have the best experience with the medium sized fish, im going for the biggest fish on the river. I don't know about longer rods slowing down your stroke. even if you move slightly slower with a longer rod, the tip could still be moving faster, as you are moving in a circular direction (greater radius with same speed as rod with smaller radius rod with bigger radius tip is moving more m/s . Furthermore, a 15 inch trout is still fun on a 9wt. Not as fun as on a 4wt, but it's still pretty fun. My point is, to call a 7wt versatile when a 9wt can do everything it can AND MORE means it's not the "versatile" pick. And yes, I have been spooled by large coho before on a 7wt. I think you can get away with steel heading with a 7wt, but an 8wt is a much better tool for the job imo. And not smoked by big cuts and bulls, but certainly they have been able to take long runs.
 
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