SFR Bremerton Otter Assault! (from Seattle Times)

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Jim in Anacortes said:
I will address this question adumcu280. Long ago I learned that (for the most part) marine biologists were very keen to grant money. Often times the funding entitie's interests took a leading role in the way that "scientific" studies were conducted. This was to insure further funding. Now, I am not going to get too deep into this, but I think many skeptical Americans have an eroded confidence in the scientific community. Starting with Climate Change shenanigans (and the funding) and more recently with the Covid-19 "scientist" (and the funding). I firmly believe that many scientists have been influenced by the sheer amount of money that is to be made for "findings" that align with positive outcomes from their funders. I also believe that many scientists have been stifled for simply telling the truth. I also am saddened that our scientific community has to live with an eroded trust. Follow the science? Not so easy anymore.
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It seems like your thesis re. sea otter ecology is that the scientific community's got it all wrong because they're only in it for the money while the fishing industry has it all figured out, while having zero financial skin in the game aside from maybe just trying to make an honest living?

Is my interpretation correct?
 
Pink Nighty I appreciate your efforts to learn about this subject. Sea Otters do not harm the kelp (seaweed) in any way. What they do is eat every living thing that lives in the environment around that Kelp bed.
 
Adamcu280 Yes! your interpretation is 100% correct. Commercial fisherman have the most skin in the game. Paid off biologist that just want more funding could care less about a healthy kelp bed. Just ask any Lobsterman in Southern California..Do you think reintroducing Sea Otters would have a beneficial result? All of them would say "Hell no!!!!"... now ask a marine biologist the same question.. Most of them would say "How much money will I get if I lie though my teeth?"
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
Pink Nighty I appreciate your efforts to learn about this subject. Sea Otters do not harm the kelp (seaweed) in any way. What they do is eat every living thing that lives in the environment around that Kelp bed.
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I think the law of caloric conservation still applies to sea otters though. "Every living thing".... ok. We introduce a sea otter to a pristine kelp forest. Crabs, abalone, what have you. Let's assume the otter prefers abalone. He dives, finds an abalone immediately, plucks it, surfaces, consumes and repeats. Calorically worthwhile endeavour.

Eventually you are right, he will deplete the abalone stock directly beneath him and need to make a choice. Does he switch to crab, or move location? Also, when to make that switch? Theres a size of abalone that an otter in rich environment certainly decides is not worth plucking in the face of more hearty meals. Probably around the time he is catching abalone but remaining hungry.

So he switches to crab. Same deal. Theres only small ones left and the the few big ones take too long of a dive to find. Hes coming up empty handed. He switches to the what have you and same.... and has a new choice. Move or starve to death. So me moves, finding a new rich environment while what he left over (because why would otters be outside the rules of needing to eat more than they expend) grows and repopulates.

As an aside, I hope you dont feel despised or personally ridiculed by anyone in this community. I cant say I'm not ridiculing this position you hold, because I find it absolutely ridiculous! But you are an awesome member of this community. You turned me on to the wonders of Fatwood and have possibly shed light on the terror of the sea. For this I salute you sir!
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
Adamcu280 Yes! your interpretation is 100% correct. Commercial fisherman have the most skin in the game. Paid off biologist that just want more funding could care less about a healthy kelp bed. Just ask any Lobsterman in Southern California..Do you think reintroducing Sea Otters would have a beneficial result? All of them would say " Hell no"... now ask a marine biologist the same question..All of them would say " How much money will I get if I lie though my teeth?"
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Got it. Good thing commercial fishers have always had the long game in mind, have never over-harvested anything to the point of no return, and make sure their financial incentives are in best interest of the rest of the ecosystem all the time.
 
adumcu280 There is no question that commercial fisherman want to harvest the waters as quickly and efficiently as possible to increase their profits. That is a given. However the last thing that they want to see is a destructive animal population ( Sea Otters) introduced into the fishing grounds that will destroy the ecosystem. Makes sense right? Now take a college kid with a degree, millions of dollars thrown at him to lie, in order to promote a politically sourced agenda from entities with huge donations such as "The friends of the Sea Otter".. That college kid has no connection to the ecosystem ,,,he has a very close connection to the funding that he is being offered. The situation is quite simple.
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
adumcu280 There is no question that commercial fisherman want to harvest the waters as quickly and efficiently as possible to increase their profits. That is a given. However the last thing that they want to see is a destructive animal population ( Sea Otters) introduced into the fishing grounds that will destroy the ecosystem. Makes sense right? Now take a college kid with a degree, millions of dollars thrown at him to lie, in order to promote a politically sourced agenda from entities with huge donations such as "The friends of the Sea Otter".. That college kid has no connection to the ecosystem ,,,he has a very close connection to the funding that he is being offered. The situation is quite simple.
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I'm thinking it's quite simple...you've never spent time in graduate school studying a physical or biological science.
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
adumcu280 There is no question that commercial fisherman want to harvest the waters as quickly and efficiently as possible to increase their profits. That is a given. However the last thing that they want to see is a destructive animal population ( Sea Otters) introduced into the fishing grounds that will destroy the ecosystem. Makes sense right? Now take a college kid with a degree, millions of dollars thrown at him to lie, in order to promote a politically sourced agenda from entities with huge donations such as "The friends of the Sea Otter".. That college kid has no connection to the ecosystem ,,,he has a very close connection to the funding that he is being offered. The situation is quite simple.
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Let me tell you about a kid that grew up flipping over rocks to look at worms and crabs and critters in the intertidal, then discovered fishing, worked at a bait and tackle shop, party boats, and dabbled in commercial fishing in HS, devoted all kinds of extracurricular time to learn more about tides and currents, how to identify birds, and all kinds of other practical things so he could better understand how everything worked together to catch more fish. That kid learned from the fishers that resource extraction "wasn't like it used to be" so thought maybe there was a different way. That kid went to college (a couple times), then graduate school, then worked with some of the world's top scientists (who were just like him in the beginning but much farther along and much more accomplished in their careers) to further that connection to the ecosystem. Along the way that kid learned a lot about how funding works, bias in science, agendas held by various stakeholders, and so forth. He still fishes all the time.

That kid's now a self-unemployed (because the only bio jobs he can find are paying the same shit rate he was getting paid in 2006) marine biologist typing a response to someone presenting one of the most insane conspiracy theories he's ever heard, on a fly fishing website.
 
When the laws were broken ( by Ca fish and game) to allow Sea Otters to expand into the "Otter free Zones" of Southern California, many fisherman were perplexed, worried and feared that their historical way of life would be terminated. But for some reason those Otters simply did not migrate south. No one knows why. It is not debatable that the San Nicholas Island Sea Otter debacle occurred and was a complete failure. I truly appreciate this discussion, and am hoping that my words may incite contemplation regarding reintroducing Sea Otters in these waters.
 
It's amazing how this secret knowledge on so many things is only ever revealed on internet discussion forums, Facebook posts, and barstool conversations.568cf4zmhcs11.jpg
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
Pink Nighty I appreciate your efforts to learn about this subject. Sea Otters do not harm the kelp (seaweed) in any way. What they do is eat every living thing that lives in the environment around that Kelp bed.
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Now, if they would only eat the damn great whites!!!
We wouldn’t need a bigger boat then.
😉
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
When the laws were broken ( by Ca fish and game) to allow Sea Otters to expand into the "Otter free Zones" of Southern California, many fisherman were perplexed, worried and feared that their historical way of life would be terminated. But for some reason those Otters simply did not migrate south. No one knows why. It is not debatable that the San Nicholas Island Sea Otter debacle occurred and was a complete failure. I truly appreciate this discussion, and am hoping that my words may incite contemplation regarding reintroducing Sea Otters in these waters.
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Otter Free Zones…
Well hell, it’s quite simple…
Ban the Assault Otter!!
🤦🏼‍♂️
 
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