SFR Bremerton Otter Assault! (from Seattle Times)

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I've seen the "sausage being made". Imagine yourself at UC Davis or Berkley or Scripps trying to get people to appreciate the dangers of reintroducing Sea Otters and asking for money to fund research that proves these dangers. Hell, you would be laughed out of the room. Just look at the responses I have gotten regarding this issue on a trout fishing forum.
 
JohnB I appreciate your efforts to shed some light on this issue. The Abalone issue is imbedded in the Sea Otter issue. It is very complicated. But what is not complicated is that where Sea Otters live, harvestable amounts of Abalone will not be found. This may be a precursor for the dynamics of crab and otters in this region.
 
I give you much respect G_Smolt. But I must disagree with you. The negative impacts of Sea Otters on the, very lucrative, Sea Cucumber fisheries in AK is extremely substantial. And well documented.
 
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The cuke dive fishery had a 23/24 GHL of over 1.6 million lbs.
The west gravina allotment was around 60,000lbs, and that was harvested in one day by the dive fleet.
The peril strait GHL was over 200,000lbs, and it was harvested in 3 weeks.
The average price last year was over $5.20.

Something tells me the divers are gonna be just fine.

Oh, yeah, forgot to add that part of my daily work now is fishery data analysis.
 
Ok G_Smolt lot's of numbers there. Can you address the concerns of many people regarding the negative impacts that Sea Otters may have on this fishery in SE Alaska for the near future? And can you point to any positive aspects of having more Sea Otters competing with the fisherman for those Cukes and for the money to be gained by harvesting them, thus enriching the communities that they live in?
 
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If you hire me at my $75/hr consultation rate, I'd be more than happy to address your questions. If you don't know what those numbers or letters mean, that's not my concern.

I'm here to comment and fill in small gaps in your information stream, not to make a work case.
 
Yet you are completely unable to answer my simple straight forward questions. Unless I pay you $75 dollars an hour? I believe that this underscores my assertions that most of the the hupala about Sea Otters is simply all about the Benjamins.
 
Let's just go over a few things-
More that 25% of the cuke fleet is nonresidents. This tracks through Ducks (36%) and urchins (48%).
Participation has dropped over time, with 227 LE cuke permits being fished in 23/24
The value of LE cuke permits (unlike the rest of the dive fisheries) has climbed over time, indicating a fully monetized fishery. From their issuance in 2001 at a value of $21k, they reached their nadir - that means low point - in March/April of 2007, when the value was $11.8k. They peaked in 2023 at $73.6k...not really suffering, innit?
It should be noted that, despite your disdain, tourism remains the largest economic driver in SE AK.
Glad I could be part of your learning journey today. You can still bitch and whine about your bias, but if you want any more numbers, you're gonna have to hire me.
 
I dove off the coast of California where there was a healthy population of sea otters, they were curious and accompanied us quite a bit of the time we were there. The area was incredibly heathy, all kinds of life. No parking lot scenario.
I also got an invite to go gather pinto abalone with a commercial diver up in Campbell River, the program was to fill as many gunny sacks as possible without regard to conservation. In my opinion the parking lot scenario you describe is probably the fault of the exact people that you say are putting it on the otters. That said, it doesn't seem like anything anyone else knows about this will have an impact on your thinking, so have nice day, and carry on.
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
Yet you are completely unable to answer my simple straight forward questions. Unless I pay you $75 dollars an hour? I believe that this underscores my assertions that most of the the hupala about Sea Otters is simply all about the Benjamins.
Click to expand...
Seriously, I admire you passion on this topic. Just wish you could focus that passion on a much larger issue that is destroying the oceans and its inhabitants on a much larger scale.
 
G_Smolt, again I have respect for your knowledge. You can throw around numbers and so can I. But I have a very specific question that I am hoping that you will address. How does reintroducing Sea Otters anywhere on the west coast of North America help any fisherman, kelp bed or ecosystem? Take all those numbers, boil them down and explain in plain English how in any way increasing Sea Otter populations will benefit mankind.
 
Dude.

Read the story about Elkhorn marsh stabilization I put in my first post.

G_Smolt

SFR Post in thread 'Bremerton Otter Assault! (from Seattle Times)'

Jim in Anacortes said:
Sea Otters are destructive creatures that are doing immense harm to eco systems around the globe..
Click to expand...

This statement is complete and utter Horseshit.

news.ucsb.edu

Sea otters stabilize salt marsh banks as they recolonize a Californian estuary

Sea otters are stabilizing salt marshes as they recolonize their former territory in Monterey Bay. The voracious cuties chow down on the crabs that burrow into the marshes' soft banks.
news.ucsb.edu news.ucsb.edu

Only within the context of fully prosecuted commercial dive and trap fisheries are sea otters "doing any harm", and quite frankly, the "stuck in the 1950's" fisheries management of the Eastern Pacific hasn't done enough to set aside biomass for ecologic need, including otters.
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A salt marsh is an ecosystem. Reintroduced otters are helping that ecosystem.

Tons more examples out there fer folks willing to actually pursue things with a minimum of bias.

Kinda over this.
 
OMG seriously? G_smolt" This is the "weak sauce" you come up with. The discussion regarding the destructive nature of Sea Otters is complex, unsettling and often uncomfortable ...but using a "salt marsh" to solidify your beliefs is simply put.... "lame as hell".. You should be over this... it is a very serious discussion with serious ramifications and repercussions... Screeching "salt marsh", is just lame
 
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Jim in Anacortes said:
OMG seriously? G_smolt" This is the "weak sauce" you come up with. The discussion regarding the destructive nature of Sea Otters is complex, unsettling and often uncomfortable ...but using a "salt marsh" to solidify your beliefs is simply put.... "lame as hell".. You should be over this... it is a very serious discussion with serious ramifications and repercussions... Screeching "salt marsh", is just lame
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Hi Jim.

You asked *checks notes*, "How does reintroducing Sea Otters anywhere on the west coast of North America help any fisherman, kelp bed or ecosystem?"

I answered that with a paper describing just what you asked, and you get all hissy that I answered your question

If you know where to look, there are quite a few other studies showing the ecosystem health benefits offered by otter presence, including to kelp forests and their important role as nearshore biorefugia and their positive effects on shoreline loss/refugia.

Something tells me you just wanna yell at clouds now. Something also tells me your confusion about the comfish numbers I provided means you're sort of a comfish poser, with no real experience.

Have, and I can't overstate this enough, a nice day.
 
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