NFR How's the housing market where you live?

Non-fishing related
While many may think 'times of old' will never happen again, I believe 'times of old' are continuing to happen just in different places. I also believe that the trend to work remotely will be driving this as well as affordability of places for first-time buyers.

Any bets that high-speed internet accessibility will be a driving force of where the growth and demand happen in remote areas? Look where there is no high-speed accessibility and then find out where T-Mobile will be expanding in the near future, Turns a 'low desirable place' into a lot more saleable and desirable. Hmmmm.

In today's society there is a stronger attitude for I want it all and I want it now. People no longer have the skills nor want to develop them. Looking into the future people with those skills will be in greater demand. There has been a trend that for trades people are earning higher and higher incomes. Look at what it costs to hire a plumber or electrician now - $250+/hr. And it is only going up. That is a far cry from people in the service industry like cooks, servers, bartenders, retail sales, etc. And where are most of the job openings?

I still believe in sweat equity a lot. House appraisals for homes with unfinished basements are at one value and finished basements are a lot higher. As the sq.ft price of a house goes up (one way to access price) then that now finished basement goes up proportionally faster and higher than an unfished basement. It also improves the marketability and desirability of the property. It is a passive investment increase that will not be realized until the house sells. In the mean time it improves the quality of living - a good thing...
A now departed friend, who started one of Spokane's major civil engineering firms, frequently said he went to school to become an engineer so he could afford a plumber.

There are plenty of good paying craft jobs out there...but it's hard work, and for plumbers it means being comfortable crawling around under sinks with the crack of your ass showing.
 
While many may think 'times of old' will never happen again, I believe 'times of old' are continuing to happen just in different places. I also believe that the trend to work remotely will be driving this as well as affordability of places for first-time buyers.

Any bets that high-speed internet accessibility will be a driving force of where the growth and demand happen in remote areas? Look where there is no high-speed accessibility and then find out where T-Mobile will be expanding in the near future, Turns a 'low desirable place' into a lot more saleable and desirable. Hmmmm.

In today's society there is a stronger attitude for I want it all and I want it now. People no longer have the skills nor want to develop them. Looking into the future people with those skills will be in greater demand. There has been a trend that for trades people are earning higher and higher incomes. Look at what it costs to hire a plumber or electrician now - $250+/hr. And it is only going up. That is a far cry from people in the service industry like cooks, servers, bartenders, retail sales, etc. And where are most of the job openings?

I still believe in sweat equity a lot. House appraisals for homes with unfinished basements are at one value and finished basements are a lot higher. As the sq.ft price of a house goes up (one way to access price) then that now finished basement goes up proportionally faster and higher than an unfished basement. It also improves the marketability and desirability of the property. It is a passive investment increase that will not be realized until the house sells. In the mean time it improves the quality of living - a good thing...
Any body that isn't all thumbs and has the ambition can use Youtube videos to learn how to do many home projects.
Just tutored my wife on how to clean the bathroom sink drain this morning...her idea.(y)
 
YouTube makes it easy for know it alls to screw it up with confidence...but some of them can afford to do it twice, once themselves, and once by a professional.
;)
 
YouTube makes it easy for know it alls to screw it up with confidence...but some of them can afford to do it twice, once themselves, and once by a professional.
;)
I've had a fair number of jobs screwed up by 'professionals'. On one particularly poor sheetrock mudding job I had to tear out and redo myself. Apparently he didn't know seams shouldn't have mounds of mud an 1/8" higher than the surrounding surface. He assured me he'd done many "custom homes, and that's how they do it these days".
 
Yeah, anyone can screw it up. I spent a number of days going in after other 'professionals' and fixing things...
Don't do that anymore, too much work and I'm old.
Tired of the ' my brother in law knows a guy and he says' sort of thing.
My favorite, usually from very well to do types upon seeing an estimate they don't like 'Jesus, kinda steep don't ya think, any idiot can do this sort of work', to which I replied one time, 'evidently not any idiot' with a big grin on my face.
Didn't get the job, didn't care.
;)
 
Aberdeen definitely has its issues, but its not as bad as it's reputation would lead one to believe. Well, it's not great. Lots of tweakers, but where aren't there lots of tweakers these days?

Were it me and I was interested in that area I'd take a look at Oakville, Elma, Montesano, Grayland, Copalis, even Westport....Basically all the surrounding areas. Honestly living in Aberdeen proper probably wouldn't be my first choice, but there's a lot of cool little communities in that area that might be worth checking out. I know nothing about the real estate market in the area, but I do love that general area very much.

Plenty of rivers in the area, and a surprising number of productive lakes. It's also not a terrible drive from the south sound. Oh, and the ocean fishing is pretty good.

I have zero plans to move from the Hansville area, as quite frankly reading through this thread makes the thought of selling and trying to find something new a very depressive task. But if I were to move, it would be out on the coast no doubt.
Montesano isn't really a cheap market anymore either. My mom's house is valued similarly to mine in Tacoma around 1/2 mil.
 
I've had a fair number of jobs screwed up by 'professionals'. On one particularly poor sheetrock mudding job I had to tear out and redo myself. Apparently he didn't know seams shouldn't have mounds of mud an 1/8" higher than the surrounding surface. He assured me he'd done many "custom homes, and that's how they do it these days".

I have done a lots of sheetrock and mudding. Take your time and build up to the correct height slowly. Minimize sanding - quickest way to get into trouble with the missus - for sure. I have friends in the trades and they wanted me to come work for them after seeing what I did. I said I was slow. They said slow is fine as long as it is done right.

Now plumbing - hate it!! Absolutely hate it! I will pay someone to do it right and it is worth it for the reduced aggravation, numerous trips to the store I do not have to make and lower blood pressure. Plumbing is where I draw the line... BTW - the plumber I use does have a 90 day warranty. A couple of times something popped up, called them and they were out in less than 2 hours to fix it - no cost.
 
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I have done a lots of sheetrock and mudding. Take your time and build up to the correct height slowly. Minimize sanding - quickest way to get into trouble with the missus - for sure. I have friends in the trades and they wanted me to come work for them after seeing what I did. I said I was slow. They said slow is fine as long as it is done right.

Now plumbing - hate it!! Absolutely hate it! I will pay someone to do it right and it is worth it for the reduced aggravation, numerous trips to the store I do not have to make and lower blood pressure. Plumbing is where I draw the line... BTW - the plumber I use does have a 90 day warranty. A couple of times something popped up, called them and they were out in less than 2 hours to fix it - no cost.
I have done a fair amount of sheetrock work...had a riding buddy who did it for a living, and he spent quite a bit of time teaching me. I did the entire basement at our house.

In this particular instance we had a contractor install a door in an exterior wall from our 2nd floor master bedroom onto a new deck. He said he'd also do the sheetrock repair (which was substantial because he needed to put in a structural header above the new door). He did fine on that but it became apparent he didn't know jackshit about mudding or texturizing.

He was one of those 'jack of all trades' young contractors...which should have been a tip-off.

I hate plumbing as well. We recently had a new quartzite countertop and sink installed in the master bathroom. The countertop contractor (Precision Counters) did a superb job...they did the initial measurements with a virtual reality 3D laser modeling system since it was a one-off custom configuration retrofit.

The plumbing contractor for the sink were idiots. When they finally got the sink installed and left we discovered the feed lines were leaking. I called their main office and they responded they wouldn't be able to schedule a repair until the following week.

I said "That's nice. I'm sure you'll like to deal with my insurance company for the cabinet, floor and ceiling sheetrock repairs in the room below". (I'd shut off the leaking feed lines). They were here in under an hour to fix the new feed line valves they'd installed.
 
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My favorite, usually from very well to do types upon seeing an estimate they don't like 'Jesus, kinda steep don't ya think, any idiot can do this sort of work', to which I replied one time, 'evidently not any idiot' with a big grin on my face.
Didn't get the job, didn't care.
Usually this ^^^ , but to demonstrate how twisted things have become with so much money sloshing around... I had a family member who presented kitchen remodel estimates to homeowners. He had a bid flatly rejected because it was too low. Apparently, he wanted to assure he would end up paying more than his neighbor. Wife gave the background eye-roll.

I'll leave this one to the psychology majors. 🤯
 
Some folks like that sort of thing. It does happen to be sure...but if the bid is far below all the others then there can be real valid reasons to ask in depth questions of the contractor.
Nothing worse than projects going sideways halfway through, and the contractor in over his head.
 
Some folks like that sort of thing. It does happen to be sure...but if the bid is far below all the others then there can be real valid reasons to ask in depth questions of the contractor.
Nothing worse than projects going sideways halfway through, and the contractor in over his head.
That sort of thing happens in the heavy civil construction world all the time; a bid substantially below the engineers' estimate and competing bids often means the contractor's business model is to bid very low, and then screw you with change orders due to 'unexpected conditions' discovered during construction.
 
I'll bet..
Then there's always the guys who just don't know how to bid a job, and find themselves looking for either a way out, or a way to get paid.
Both are bad news for the 'end user'.
 
In the business many contractor's give the standard tailgate warranty.
Once you can no longer see their tailgate all bets are off.

There is also the pickup warranty. Walk through the job with the contractor and agree upon a list of pickups. He will be back tomorrow. You will never see his pickup again and as you pickup yourself up off the floor in disbelief you say ______________________.
 
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My Dad was a CPA/banking consultant that spent a lot of time in a world where bankers had to worry about people repaying the money they'd lent them, and one of his insights was "Try not to borrow more than 2X your gross when you buy a house if you can get away with it." It'd been his experience that if you borrowed more than that, you'd have a hard time finding enough money to pay for everything else and have the peace of mind that comes along with consistently earning more than you spend every month.

This rule of thumb was from a different banking/interest-rate environment, but between a respect for my Dad's intelligence and wisdom, doing the math myself, and having a lot of early second-hand exposure to the downsides of financial risk/overextension soon after college I was determined not to buy until we had 20% down, plus escrow/closing, plus a six month emergency fund on top of that - and wouldn't be borrowing more than 2X our annual gross. It took a while, and we ended up not being in a position to buy until I was 40, but eventually got there - mostly because we had the good fortune to be in the market a few years before the present insanity took hold.

What's been confusing to me as an observer is how everyone else is making it work. The monthly nut from the mortgage is low enough that we still have enough money to cover retirement savings, college-savings, health/life/disability/home/auto insurance, car-expenses, vet-bills, dramatically higher property taxes, etc, etc, etc, etc and generally have enough money left over at the end of the month to add a bit of buffer to cushion the blow any time we've been hit by an unplanned expense related to the house, which has been often.

We tend to keep our discretionary spending relatively low, do all of our own yardwork, DIY projects around the house as much as possible, build furniture instead of buying it when possible, stick to PNW centric camping-type vacations, repair appliances/lawnmowers, etc ourselves yadda, yadda, yadda . Having said that - the *only* reason everything pencils out at the end of the month is because we kept a lid on how much we borrowed for the house.

When I see homes going for well north of 1 million dollars in the totally generic Lynwood-area suburb that we live in, I find myself asking - "Are *all* of these youngish couples grossing well over $400K? Are they putting away any money for retirement?" Even if the answer to both questions is "yes," I find myself wondering how that could possibly explain what's going on region/population wide, and how the median couple are covering the monthly nut and keeping a positive balance at the end of the month. Are people just redlining it, throwing caution to the wind, and putting all of their eggs in the housing basket? Is everyone earning vastly more money than the median income/wage stats would have you believe? I've mostly given up trying to make sense of it all, but it's hard to shake the feeling that Herb Stein's dictum that "If something can't go on forever, it won't" will be vindicated sooner than we think.
 
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