Never heard of it I'm afraid. I moved away in 2007, so it's been some time. A quick intertubes search indicates no such place exists anymore.
The dreaded ‘D’ word
- Thread starter SovDog
- Start date
I actually lived in Winter Park/Casselberry (far NW corner of the Orlando area) which was much better than the rest of the metro area IMO. Anything south of downtown was tourist hell hole. But in general, very much not my place and I'm glad I'm not there anymore. Enjoyed my time there in my early adulthood, though. Lots of great memories.
I can't say much about the fishing in and around Disneyworld. Part two of the question is betrayed by part one's I want to do something that's fun for me close to Disneyworld because I am stuck hafting to go there for part of it ....
Part two of the question is perhaps way more important how should I cope at Disney when I don't really want to be there without coming off as a jerk to my kids and spouse?
Went to Disney California over this past New Years. Psychologically I was not excited before going, it's expensive, it's goofy (sic) and it was never really my thing beyond about age 9. But then watching my son enjoy it, well, it was more fun than I thought it would be. I mean I held the place in the "Greet the Princesses" line which, when it was his turn to meet these beauties, was a highlight. Some might view that as emasculating for me, on the other hand, that's part of being a dad. The Princess thing was fascinating. Watching the protocols, seeing how they respond to an adult special needs fan, their poise, beauty, politeness, general amiableness and, frankly, a kind of deep sincerity that seems just strange compared to more conventional workplaces. He was thrilled! And my take home? A reminder that I lose nothing if I were to have a similar attitude towards others those same Princesses had.
So- Boot's ideas about hafting to go to Disney with the family when you don't really want to go but would be a jerk not to show for your kids and spouse etc...
I guess when i am stuck doing something I am not thrilled I have to spin it a little. Here are some of the things that helped me cope/self entertain at Disney without being a dick. Most of this remains entirely internal, unspoken, observational, not discussed and a mental exercise:
Logistical supply and maintenance:
How would I run something? Who am I running it for? What's the hierarchy of employment? What's the timing intervals of the characters, parades, side shows? How does the manipulation of attention intersect with the maximization of revenue and yet an absence of resentment of how expensive it is? How could I use this for a get-rich-quick scheme based on these ideas...
Cash extraction vs times in line:
Revenue maximization. Like the Harvard Business Review approach to how they came up with this model....What mathematics led to a maximize line time with delivering just enough stimulus so as not to hate it, but not receive an already paid for product? And yet, leave someone with an experience that makes them want to turn around, go to the souvenir store, and purchase more plush nonsense? How am I going to extract maximum cash from a Disney couple? What type of person feels manipulated by lines vs the ones that don't? I am the sucker here, standing in line for the Peter Pan Ride- in the rare and suprisingly heavy California rain, but how am I going to cope with knowing that? who among the crowd failed to anticipate the ominous forecast and are now sporting, as a couple, matching, soaked Disney sweatshirts, sweatpants and hats?... What kinds of rain-inspired chivalry without the purchase of a souvenir poncho are we going to see today?
Motives of going, the psychology of it:
Kids and families it's easy to see the motive, but adult Disney couples, that's where it truly does become fascinating. How is it that a childhood staple becomes an adult comfort- for a couple without kids- to the point of buying the matching clothes etc, etc? At one point does an emotional glue- we'll call it nostalgia- prevent or enable an emotional maturation? Is nostalgia actually really important for psychological health for a certain type of person/couple? Was Disney in childhood truly one of the few reliable joys of a childhood otherwise fraught with suffering. Disney as utopia etc etc. Does cloying nostalgia lead to insufferable couples? Are there any of these couples absolutely melting down, because that is oddly fascinating to watch......
Nostalgia as fungible, what's going to last?
When my kids were young we went to Disney California and they had a whole ride etc devoted to Jerry Seinfeld's movie Bee Story. And a hall with the Muppets. These have since by and large vanished. In their stead- more Star Wars, ongoing Toy Story, huge development of Cars-- so why did Muppets and Bee Story fail and these other ones endure? The Star Wars stuff certainly ticked some boxes for the adult Men who can appreciate the mythic good vs evil battles without cartoons and say Stockholm Syndrome story lines eg Beauty and Beast.... But the Muppets? I mean C'mon, they were awesome, then again they were unpredictable, witty, they did musical parodies and with stars that maybe have moved on at this point...oh ok now I see it, the muppets were basically way more sophisticated in what they were doing and Disney/Mickey's Playhouse is the version of song and dance character-based entertainment that is super formulated and predictable now (and that is thriving)
The Neurology of it: As someone particularly interested in special needs and abnormal brain functions, Disney is basically a field day of seeing all kinds of kids and adults with intellectual disabilities. Maybe you're not tuned into it, but the chances you won't see a significantly higher proportion of adults and children in the crowd with special needs at Disney is zero. Which, for me, is really interesting. That's a super marginalized population out and about having fun. Yes, I am trying to characterize gaits, disorders, behaviors, attention patterns, meltdowns, joys, obsessions. Yes, I am looking at the parents to see their coping strategy and yes I am looking at the normal sibs to see how they are doing and dynamic patterns there. Sometimes it is frankly really obvious that some of those parents have broken the bank to get their kid there, (which brings us back to motive), and that, to me, is pretty touching.
So, an entry level version of this, if Disney is really getting you chapped, try and look for that autistic kid who is absolutely beaming when their character of choice is posing with them, the kid that is so happy they are crying- because as much as Disney is not my preferred way to spend the day, sometimes the vicarious joy I get from just seeing that can keep the day (and my mild to moderate annoyance at not being able to fish alone with no distractions for hours) rolling a little longer in the joyful/good state of mind.
What's my take home
There is a lot to learn about providing your own "goods and services" for whatever you do from Disney. So, if you have to do the time, do the anthropological, economic, psychological, financial, neurological field research, and remind yourself to keep the spirits up and make sure your kids have fun and don't turn into brats while there and don't screw up the fast pass/line hop strategies. Plus, you are going to spend some cash, resign yourself to that, ignore the credit card for a bit, that money is already gone...
July's Atlantic issue has Steve Martin (yes that one) writing about Diane Arbus ( the photographer) In Disneyland. There's a paywall
By Steve Martin
Photographs by Diane Arbus
Part two of the question is perhaps way more important how should I cope at Disney when I don't really want to be there without coming off as a jerk to my kids and spouse?
Went to Disney California over this past New Years. Psychologically I was not excited before going, it's expensive, it's goofy (sic) and it was never really my thing beyond about age 9. But then watching my son enjoy it, well, it was more fun than I thought it would be. I mean I held the place in the "Greet the Princesses" line which, when it was his turn to meet these beauties, was a highlight. Some might view that as emasculating for me, on the other hand, that's part of being a dad. The Princess thing was fascinating. Watching the protocols, seeing how they respond to an adult special needs fan, their poise, beauty, politeness, general amiableness and, frankly, a kind of deep sincerity that seems just strange compared to more conventional workplaces. He was thrilled! And my take home? A reminder that I lose nothing if I were to have a similar attitude towards others those same Princesses had.
So- Boot's ideas about hafting to go to Disney with the family when you don't really want to go but would be a jerk not to show for your kids and spouse etc...
I guess when i am stuck doing something I am not thrilled I have to spin it a little. Here are some of the things that helped me cope/self entertain at Disney without being a dick. Most of this remains entirely internal, unspoken, observational, not discussed and a mental exercise:
Logistical supply and maintenance:
How would I run something? Who am I running it for? What's the hierarchy of employment? What's the timing intervals of the characters, parades, side shows? How does the manipulation of attention intersect with the maximization of revenue and yet an absence of resentment of how expensive it is? How could I use this for a get-rich-quick scheme based on these ideas...
Cash extraction vs times in line:
Revenue maximization. Like the Harvard Business Review approach to how they came up with this model....What mathematics led to a maximize line time with delivering just enough stimulus so as not to hate it, but not receive an already paid for product? And yet, leave someone with an experience that makes them want to turn around, go to the souvenir store, and purchase more plush nonsense? How am I going to extract maximum cash from a Disney couple? What type of person feels manipulated by lines vs the ones that don't? I am the sucker here, standing in line for the Peter Pan Ride- in the rare and suprisingly heavy California rain, but how am I going to cope with knowing that? who among the crowd failed to anticipate the ominous forecast and are now sporting, as a couple, matching, soaked Disney sweatshirts, sweatpants and hats?... What kinds of rain-inspired chivalry without the purchase of a souvenir poncho are we going to see today?
Motives of going, the psychology of it:
Kids and families it's easy to see the motive, but adult Disney couples, that's where it truly does become fascinating. How is it that a childhood staple becomes an adult comfort- for a couple without kids- to the point of buying the matching clothes etc, etc? At one point does an emotional glue- we'll call it nostalgia- prevent or enable an emotional maturation? Is nostalgia actually really important for psychological health for a certain type of person/couple? Was Disney in childhood truly one of the few reliable joys of a childhood otherwise fraught with suffering. Disney as utopia etc etc. Does cloying nostalgia lead to insufferable couples? Are there any of these couples absolutely melting down, because that is oddly fascinating to watch......
Nostalgia as fungible, what's going to last?
When my kids were young we went to Disney California and they had a whole ride etc devoted to Jerry Seinfeld's movie Bee Story. And a hall with the Muppets. These have since by and large vanished. In their stead- more Star Wars, ongoing Toy Story, huge development of Cars-- so why did Muppets and Bee Story fail and these other ones endure? The Star Wars stuff certainly ticked some boxes for the adult Men who can appreciate the mythic good vs evil battles without cartoons and say Stockholm Syndrome story lines eg Beauty and Beast.... But the Muppets? I mean C'mon, they were awesome, then again they were unpredictable, witty, they did musical parodies and with stars that maybe have moved on at this point...oh ok now I see it, the muppets were basically way more sophisticated in what they were doing and Disney/Mickey's Playhouse is the version of song and dance character-based entertainment that is super formulated and predictable now (and that is thriving)
The Neurology of it: As someone particularly interested in special needs and abnormal brain functions, Disney is basically a field day of seeing all kinds of kids and adults with intellectual disabilities. Maybe you're not tuned into it, but the chances you won't see a significantly higher proportion of adults and children in the crowd with special needs at Disney is zero. Which, for me, is really interesting. That's a super marginalized population out and about having fun. Yes, I am trying to characterize gaits, disorders, behaviors, attention patterns, meltdowns, joys, obsessions. Yes, I am looking at the parents to see their coping strategy and yes I am looking at the normal sibs to see how they are doing and dynamic patterns there. Sometimes it is frankly really obvious that some of those parents have broken the bank to get their kid there, (which brings us back to motive), and that, to me, is pretty touching.
So, an entry level version of this, if Disney is really getting you chapped, try and look for that autistic kid who is absolutely beaming when their character of choice is posing with them, the kid that is so happy they are crying- because as much as Disney is not my preferred way to spend the day, sometimes the vicarious joy I get from just seeing that can keep the day (and my mild to moderate annoyance at not being able to fish alone with no distractions for hours) rolling a little longer in the joyful/good state of mind.
What's my take home
There is a lot to learn about providing your own "goods and services" for whatever you do from Disney. So, if you have to do the time, do the anthropological, economic, psychological, financial, neurological field research, and remind yourself to keep the spirits up and make sure your kids have fun and don't turn into brats while there and don't screw up the fast pass/line hop strategies. Plus, you are going to spend some cash, resign yourself to that, ignore the credit card for a bit, that money is already gone...
July's Atlantic issue has Steve Martin (yes that one) writing about Diane Arbus ( the photographer) In Disneyland. There's a paywall
Disneyland With No People
My encounter with a giant of American photographyBy Steve Martin
Photographs by Diane Arbus
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SovDog
Steelhead
Well, to be fair I do enjoy family vacations and would look forward to getting to see my kids excitement at a place like disneyworld. I’m sure I’ll be able to appreciate other aspects of the park and set aside the financial woes it’ll probably put me in. I just know that I would feel a heck of a lot better with a snook, bone, or baby tarpon under my belt if at all possible. Thanks for the input everyone.
Alchohol might help, before, after or during...
Sebastian Inlet / Indian River area has some great redfish guides and cool inshore sight fishing. It’s less than two hours from Disney Mayhem Center. Check Bill Kiene’s website as he now lives in Sebastian.
Prep the night before, bolt at 0400 be on the water ready to cast by 0700 be headed back to The Land of 4 Mile Lines by 1530 when the exhausted adults are starting to look for adult beverages and a place to sit their ass down. Indian River has skinny water sight fishing and if you go outside it’s the right time as @DimeBrite for the Cobia migration northbound. Excellent flyrod fare and they fight their way into the boat. Combat fishing at its finest.
Prep the night before, bolt at 0400 be on the water ready to cast by 0700 be headed back to The Land of 4 Mile Lines by 1530 when the exhausted adults are starting to look for adult beverages and a place to sit their ass down. Indian River has skinny water sight fishing and if you go outside it’s the right time as @DimeBrite for the Cobia migration northbound. Excellent flyrod fare and they fight their way into the boat. Combat fishing at its finest.
Not sure if it could be in the cards, but I have a lot of friends who have pivoted to Tokyo Disney for family trips. The cost of a week+ in Japan w Disney days can be a fair amount less than going to a US park with all the passes. The Disney corporation does not own the park, so it does not control the pricing. And, just being a tourist in Japan is extremely reasonable when compared to US prices.