Who is Wrong on This One?

[JayB]

I'm trying to settle a debate with my wife regarding the futility or non-futility of my efforts to target coho with a fly rod. She's heard several other people that do fairly well gear-fishing declare that it's somewhere between impossible and a waste of time. My comeback is that it's neither, I'm just really bad at it.

As the years have gone by, I've started to become haunted by the possibility that everyone on the other side of the debate is far more correct than I've been willing to accept. Or maybe the spots that I tend to fish because it's convenient (8-2/NE-9) just don't lend themselves to this pursuit as well as other parts of the sound. Or maybe it's a combination of all three factors. It's a waste of time, I'm bad at it, and I'm doing it in a spot that's not particularly well suited to such techniques

This leads me to the following questions: 1) If you fish for coho in the sound from a boat, what percentage of the fish you catch would you estimate are caught while fly-fishing? 2) Have you done so in MA-2/NE-9 any time in the past 5-10 years, without naming the actual spot. A simple no, or yes would be much appreciated, and a bit more context even more so, e.g. "I normally run downriggers but if I see obvious activity on the surface I'll grab the fly-rod" or "Yes, but I find it far less productive than other spots," "I pass out in my boat with a clouser dangling over the side and fill my punch-card every season," etc.

The results with either justify the acquisition of downriggers and other meat-fishing gear, the continued pursuit of my Quixotic quest, or some combination of both so I appreciate any and all input.

 

[Wade Rivers]

You're hitting a real sore spot here. My flyfishing buddy and I have cast a jillion times into coastal bays in Oregon and the coho catch rate is minimal. Meanwhile, my gear buddies are hooking fresh whoppers on big pink spinners??

Despite repeating to ourselves..."Well if they'll hit a spinner they'll eat a fly"

 

[Bagman]

YES. I really enjoy a fresh caught coho, that being said I do not fish with bait. Salmon are fished with a fly mostly off the bank in a few different spots. My catch over the last 10 years have gone down, but so has my time in the water. If I’m trolling with a down rigger on a boat for kings, plugs or spinners are required.

 

[SurfnFish]

 

[Stonedfish]

YES. I really enjoy a fresh caught coho, that being said I do not fish with bait. Salmon are fished with a fly mostly off the bank in a few different spots. My catch over the last 10 years have gone down, but so has my time in the water. If I’m trolling with a down rigger on a boat for kings, plugs or spinners are required.

Al,
That rod, reel and fly sure look familiar…..
the fish kind of does as well.
SF

 

[Chucker]

," "I pass out in my boat with a clouser dangling over the side and fill my punch-card every season," etc.

I have actually caught a keeper coho (in area 10) which took a clouser that was just dangling over the side. Luckily I was not passed out at the time and was able to grab the rod as it bounced over the rail. However, that is not how I fill the punch card…

 

[Bagman]

Al,
That rod, reel and fly sure look familiar…..
the fish kind of does as well.
SF

View attachment 64197

You’re right that is not a fish that I caught. My bad

 

[Scudley Do Right]

It depends on your goal. Don't let other people dictate how your gonna fish. If you want to catch them fly fishing keep at it. If you want to put more fish in the boat downriggers will do that. Are you fishing around other people? If so are they catching fish? Are you seeing fish on the screen? I found that from a boat you can get them on the fly rod for the first hour. After they go deep you are better off moving closer to shore. Even if there are less fish there they are fish you can get a fly in front of. If you want to put some more fish in the boat you could try mooching or jigging. It would be less investment and more fun than downriggers. When my dad used a fly while I mooched in deeper water I would guess I hooked 10 to his 1. That was area 9 & 10.

 

[PhilR]

. My comeback is that it's neither, I'm just really bad at it.

I’d laugh if I weren’t crying, because this is me.

 

[Matt B]

I'm trying to settle a debate with my wife
...

the continued pursuit of my Quixotic quest

 

[Scott Salzer]

There is certain north Hood canal bay that they stage in the shallows. A hoot, to say the least.
There are also some tackle buster dogs that will explode rods. Had one that left the water and hit the spartina to escape. I got em.

 

[skyrise]

NS is a real pistol for coho off the beach. For some reason they don’t come very close to the beach much anymore, sea lions maybe ? I always end up chasing them in the lower river where they show themselves.

 

[JayB]

It depends on your goal. Don't let other people dictate how your gonna fish. If you want to catch them fly fishing keep at it. If you want to put more fish in the boat downriggers will do that. Are you fishing around other people? If so are they catching fish? Are you seeing fish on the screen? I found that from a boat you can get them on the fly rod for the first hour. After they go deep you are better off moving closer to shore. Even if there are less fish there they are fish you can get a fly in front of. If you want to put some more fish in the boat you could try mooching or jigging. It would be less investment and more fun than downriggers. When my dad used a fly while I mooched in deeper water I would guess I hooked 10 to his 1. That was area 9 & 10.

I pretty much just follow the standard playbook - points of land, rips, bait, diving birds, etc - and if there's surface activity so much the better. More often than not I'll be fairly close to the shore, but if I see some combination of factors resulting in fishy looking water further out I'll go check that area out, particularly if there's fewer of those factors happening close to shore. I don't think I've ever had the good fortune to be in the midst of "lights out" fishing, but of the times when has been was steady activity nearby it's been amongst folks out trolling.

I'll definitely continue to make flailing away with my fly rod the primary focus since that's what I enjoy and what interests me, but think I'll probably transition to a two-part strategy where I use gear to extend the early/late fishing window to brighter parts of the day and use whatever catch I'm able to bring home as a pretext for spending more time fishing. That - and it seems like it'd be handy for those times when someone in the family or friend network wants to come out fishing, or at least it'd be less mystifying to them than me trying to explain that while I enjoy what I do when I'm out in the boat it's "not for everyone." "So...you like to go out and fish for salmon." "Yes." "But...the methods you use make it especially difficult to...catch salmon.." "Yes..."

 

[Nick Clayton]

Coho can one hundred percent be caught on flies in the areas you're describing. Quite successfully at times. IMO, however, 95% of the time downriggers are just flat out going to be more effective. I think this is for multiple reasons but the ability to cover so much water/depth easily is the biggest factor. Ive said it many times that when it comes to saltwater Salmon fishing I strongly believe the biggest factor that determines success is simply having your offering in the presence of fish as much as possible. Downriggers are just so efficient for this.

Downriggers also don't require physical effort. Making endless casts throughout the day while fly fishing can really wear someone out throughout the day and cause a lack of confidence and motivation. This results in a lack of effort over the course of a day, which of course leads to a lack of results.

To me if someone is just wanting to maximize their freezer filling potential, and isn't hung up on fishing in any one particular way, then downriggers is the logical answer. However, if you WANT to catch coho in the sound on the fly we'll then the only way to become successful is to do it. By that I mean you can't catch coho on flies while you're trolling with downriggers. If you want to do it, the only way to get good and to get confidence is to put in the time. Back when I fished the sound all summer long I caught a lot of coho, both from the beach and from boats. I am pretty confident in my abilities to do so. However, if you took the number of fish I landed during any particular season of putting 100+ days on the water, that number would likely pale in comparison to the number of fish I would have caught had I spent the same amount of time trolling downriggers.

The only time I really spent much time guiding fly anglers for adult coho in the sound was 2019 before I went back to the ocean in September, and I learned a lot that season. Guiding fly anglers for adult coho in the north sound turned out to be some of the hardest work I've ever done and what I found is that on an average day on the water, say 10 hours of fishing time, we were only finding 4-5 legit opportunities. These were often scenarios where fish would show themselves within casting range, we would find points/rips that were obviously holding a few fish, maybe a random grab blind casting into a big rip, stuff like that. So to throw numbers at it, for the sake of this conversation, let's say that with two anglers onboard on an average day we had a total of 5 "chances". 5 potential grabs over 10 hours of fishing. Naturally two or three of those grabs will come when the angler is tired and not paying attention, one of those potential grabs will be a fish that jumps within casting range but the nearest angler was worn out and sitting down and unable to get a cast off quickly enough. One of those grabs is likely to result in a vicious trout set and a lost fish. And then maybe that last opportunity is a suicidal fish that happens to be clipped and at the end of the day 2 anglers walk off the boat with some stories of missed chances and a single hatchery coho for dinner. I experienced this very very often and often thought about it. What I kinda came away with in the end is that consistently catching coho in the sound on flies isn't rocket science, but it does require a certain amount of dedication, perseverance, ability and eventually experience, and the only way to really get to that level is to dedicate yourself to it. Two extremely dedicated and experienced anglers may encounter those same opportunities but are ready and able to take advantage of them so those same two guys walked off with 4 fish for the freezer. Only difference is the ability to capitalize on those found opportunities.

There are times when flies will out fish other methods. I've experienced those days and man are they satisfying. If you spend enough days out there focused on fly fishing you will certainly experience those days. But, the simple fact is that those scenarios are pretty rare and success in general will likely almost always be better with riggers. It's just such an efficient way to catch Salmon. If watching other boats catching fish when you're not is going to bother you, then that might give you the answer you're looking for. If success is measured by the number of outings that produce a limit of coho, and everything else is secondary, then riggers are for sure the safest bet. (And I don't mean that at all in a negative way. There is not a thing wrong with wanting to spend your time fishing in the most efficient way possible)

But, if you're determined to get proficient at catching Puget Sound coho on cast flies, just know that it can definitely be done, it kinda comes down to just how much effort you really want to put towards that end.


Kind of rambly I know lol. Just an off the top of my head suggestion, but my suggestion would be to maybe hold off on the downriggers. Maybe get yourself a decent rod/reel or two and learn to mooching, jig, and if you really get hard up troll a flat line or a diver. Jigging/mooching is a lot of fun in different ways, but one cool thing about both methods is success requires the angler to really learn and figure out how and where to find fish at various times. Trolling tends to result in a lot of just randomly driving around until a fish is hooked. Effective as hell, but not the best at teaching people the finer points of learning how to actually find Salmon. Those lessons learned while mooching or jigging lend themselves well to fly fishing as it really helps you focus on where and when you should be fishing and why. Focusing on learning those methods while keeping fly gear handy may start showing you more opportunities where you'd like to pick up the fly rod. If after a season spent dedicating towards that end you still feel like you're not catching to a satisfactory level you could then invest in dowriggers. At worst you'd have a stronger understanding of different methods and when to use them, and you'd also not be wondering in the back of your mind about other techniques.

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

 

[Smalma]

Thanks Nick some excellent thoughts!

I have been attempt to catch PS coho consistently on a fly over the deeper water since 2005 with what could best be called mixed success.

I liken attempting to catch a deep water coho in central PS on lies is much like catching steelhead in our rivers on flies. The major trick to that game is recognizing the water where steelhead are likely to be and then being able to high grade that water that lends you to effectively present your fly. PS is nothing more than a giant river that is constantly changing with more variables that our typically river. Prevailing weather patterns, tides, forage abundance, water visibility and a host of other variables will influence where the fly angler is likely to have success.

Like on the steelhead rivers that quickest way to learn the water that will hold fish is to catch fish and note where you caught them. Using the fly rod to learn that information is a slow process due to our low catch rates under even the best circumstances. If one wants to accelerate that process I would suggest that the angler consider using gear, specifically I would focus on trolling cut plug herring on a flat line. For that I use a light weight rod (rated for 8 to 12# line) and a direct drive reel loaded with 15# line. Learn to cut and rig the herring on a 6 foot leader fished with a 2 to 4 oz kidney sinker (I usually use 3 oz). Fish that in areas where you think coho are likely to be and take note of not only where you find fish but also the conditions (tide, bait presence, wind, light conditions). As you catch more fish you will be building a database of where the coho are likely to be that are willing to bait. While this approach will not usually be as affective as downriggers it will catch fish in water that you can effectively reach the fish with your flies when ready to make that switch.

In the period that I have chased those central sound coho I have found huge variance in the coho behavior from year to year. Some years the best fishing is on the west side and others on the east side. Some years there are few coho willing to play on the shallow water yet other years the stars align to produce decent success for the fly angler and twice in that period I have had 3-week periods (late August to mid-September) where my flies were out fishing my gear buddies. The biggest difference those year was clear water (minimal algae blooms), abundant bait that was feeding on the surface regularly, and an early return of ocean fish.

Until recently that often was decent fly action from mid-July through mid-September with the early half of that action relying on the resident coho who had reached a size (18 to 22 inches) where they were actively feeding on herring. Since 2019 that June coho fishery in MA 10 has been harvesting the coho at a pretty high rate cropping the fastest growing fish (the better baiters) prior to them reaching that magical size of 18 to 22 inches.

Good luck in your learning efforts in this fishery.

Curt

 

[jasmillo]

I only fly fish for coho in the sound and have filled my freezer with clipped coho the last couple of years fishing from the beach and the boat (the prior 5-6 years I was releasing all caught fish). Definitely doable but it takes lot of effort. I fish MA 9 and 10 pretty hard 2-3 times a week. Usually both weekend days, sun up until I catch my limit, the tides make it a waste of time or 3 or so pm rolls around. Often, the latter two are the reason I call it quits. I’ll also get one to two 3-4 hour sessions in after work. That’s a lot of casting! Most days it’s 2-4 opportunities with random better days thrown in and usually a small number of really great days a year. There’s also some complete whiffs in there too. Throw in lost fish using barbless hooks and clipped fish that are released and you can see how it might not be the most efficient way to catch them for the table. I also benefit by living close to some good coho beaches which helps. When I do fish from the boat I am sticking close to shore mostly fishing the same type of water I fish from the beach. I have not attempted to try anything else. I know that many days I could catch more fish using other methods but it’s so much fun on a fly rod!

 

[JayB]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and suggestions!

Not too long after I made the original post someone in my family had some health issues come up, and getting that sorted out left basically zero time for some of my other routine distractions. Thankfully those are pretty well settled for now, so things can more or less revert to normal.

Not sure how I managed to scroll through the gajillion linear feet of threads describing saltwater coho fishing and come away with the impression that I was the only one finding it hard going, but it was helpful to hear experienced hands acknowledge the challenges. Whether it's entirely accurate or not, framing it as something roughly akin to steelheading in terms of the time, effort, dedication, etc required to crack the code sounds like the right mindset to the salt with.

In between the other stuff going on I did pick up a decent line-counter reel, gear-rod, and manual downrigger setup so on the days when I can manage to get out I'm looking forward to having the full arsenal to choose from and putting some of the feedback in this thread to use. Wasn't ever a part of my original game plan, but the prospect of setting the rods down and sipping a beer while puttering around the Sound in the sunshine while trying to dredge up a fish on the downrigger to appease the family/cats doesn't sound half-bad.

 

[Jake Watrous]

the prospect of setting the rods down and sipping a beer while puttering around the Sound in the sunshine while trying to dredge up a fish on the downrigger to appease the family/cats doesn't sound half-bad.

Just watch out for the clusters of boats. Those bozos who can’t drive on the road, or on the boat ramp, are somehow worse on the water. Always 1 or 2 out there at any time.

 

[JayB]

Just watch out for the clusters of boats. Those bozos who can’t drive on the road, or on the boat ramp, are somehow worse on the water. Always 1 or 2 out there at any time.

Ha. Other than fishing I my major focus when I'm out on the water is not being that guy!