WDFW On Invasive Green Crabs

Cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
Forum Supporter
Frankly, after the report in Nov. 2021 that 70,000 green crabs were discovered in a tribal sea pond, IMO efforts at monitoring and eradication before the green crab established a beach-head have failed in inland Washington waters. Green crabs are listed as one of the top 100 invasive species world-wide. In this summary, you can read that they are tolerant of a wide-range of environmental conditions. Green crabs are potentially long-lived, up to seven years. Green crab females can produce up to 370,000 pelagic larvae per year, and these young are dispersed via ocean currents over long distances during their 90 day larval period.
If you cannot eradicate an introduced species before it becomes established, your only options are 1) live with the consequences or 2) try to control its numbers where it is especially abundant. Option 2 requires continuous effort
To be fair to WDFW, they are dealing with the general public who have demonstrated repeatedly that they cannot identify squat correctly. "But officer, I thought that this was a blank...". There are Cancer and other crab species that look similar enough to Carcinus meanus to cause confusion. Officer, "What are you doing with all those small crabs in your bucket?" General public, "We are doing our part by collecting all these nasty, introduced green crabs." Officer, "But those are juvenile Dungeness crabs." General public, "No, really???"
I suspect that WDFW is using this reporting mechanism to identify concentrations of crabs to target for control.
Steve
 

Shad

Life of the Party
From https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/invasive/carcinus-maenas:

If you find a suspected European green crab or its shell in Washington, report it as soon as possible using the form on this webpage. Download the Crab Identification Guide and take pictures to confirm identification. At this time, we are not asking the public to kill suspected green crabs. This may sound counterintuitive but is intended to protect native crabs from cases of mistaken identity. As a Prohibited species, it is illegal to possess a live European green crab in Washington.
Yet we leave as many untrained eyes as possible to decide what species of salmon they just caught (which certainly isn't any easier than distinguishing between crab species)....

This kind of illogical reasoning for seemingly inexplicable rules is what has degraded public trust in WDFW to the point where we think every outrageous decision is part of a conspiracy to somehow screw over recreational sports folk.

In this case, my conspiracy theory is that they are trying to get the invasive crabs established to a point where they can support commercial fisheries. Yup. Completely ridiculous, right? Maybe so, but no more ridiculous than a strict C&R policy on an invasive species....

I'm sure there are things I don't understand at play here, but I'm definitely scratching my head on this one.
 

FinLuver

Native Oregonian…1846
Yet we leave as many untrained eyes as possible to decide what species of salmon they just caught (which certainly isn't any easier than distinguishing between crab species)....

This kind of illogical reasoning for seemingly inexplicable rules is what has degraded public trust in WDFW to the point where we think every outrageous decision is part of a conspiracy to somehow screw over recreational sports folk.

In this case, my conspiracy theory is that they are trying to get the invasive crabs established to a point where they can support commercial fisheries. Yup. Completely ridiculous, right? Maybe so, but no more ridiculous than a strict C&R policy on an invasive species....

I'm sure there are things I don't understand at play here, but I'm definitely scratching my head on this one.
While not commercial value; bass introduced into Oregon waters by ODFW where just another recreational pipe dream, to increase revenues. Destroying once renowned trout fisheries.

Oh… and “the North Umpqua is too cold for the smallmouth to ascend Winchester Dam BS”… 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
 

ABITNF

Steelhead
I don't mean successfully reproducing in our foreign to them land or water. I mean successfully eradicated.
Agree completely. Once it gets to the point of successfully reproducing it's probably too late. The species I named are examples of how a species can become dominant in a new environment regardless of whether they were brought here purposefully or accidentally.
 

ABITNF

Steelhead
I spent 35 years in fisheries enforcement and resource management. It's no cakewalk to do things with ease. I experienced two problems as I approached retirement. One was that there was little to no transfer of knowledge, and you can pencil in the words common sense there, from oldsters to youngsters. And secondly, no one has the balls to make a decision about anything because they don't want to be responsible for the outcome if they are wrong.

Noted Canadian fisheries scientist William E. Ricker had a saying, "Fisheries management isn't rocket science. It's much more complicated."

Very true. But to do nothing is criminal. Even if you try and don't get the result you want at least you're moving towards a solution. You know what won't work so you try something else. You adapt and you move ahead. I found that if you stay in the bureaucracy long enough the same old ideas just continue to pop up decades later.

Sadly, I've also observed that bright and dedicated people who want to do well and are enthusiastic about their work and take its burden very seriously, are soon crushed by the weight of the bureaucracy they inadvertently become part of.
 

FinLuver

Native Oregonian…1846
I spent 35 years in fisheries enforcement and resource management. It's no cakewalk to do things with ease. I experienced two problems as I approached retirement. One was that there was little to no transfer of knowledge, and you can pencil in the words common sense there, from oldsters to youngsters. And secondly, no one has the balls to make a decision about anything because they don't want to be responsible for the outcome if they are wrong.

Noted Canadian fisheries scientist William E. Ricker had a saying, "Fisheries management isn't rocket science. It's much more complicated."

Very true. But to do nothing is criminal. Even if you try and don't get the result you want at least you're moving towards a solution. You know what won't work so you try something else. You adapt and you move ahead. I found that if you stay in the bureaucracy long enough the same old ideas just continue to pop up decades later.

Sadly, I've also observed that bright and dedicated people who want to do well and are enthusiastic about their work and take its burden very seriously, are soon crushed by the weight of the bureaucracy they inadvertently become part of.
You just said it all…

No balls and BS (aka bureaucracy)

The best part of workin’ for someone, is to not be afraid of losing your job. Jobs are a dime a dozen and that mentality takes all the burden off of your shoulders and puts it on the bosses….nothing more liberating than that!!!

Ps: if you lose your job, your new job, is to find a new job or start your own business. 😉
 

Dustin Chromers

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
I spent 35 years in fisheries enforcement and resource management. It's no cakewalk to do things with ease. I experienced two problems as I approached retirement. One was that there was little to no transfer of knowledge, and you can pencil in the words common sense there, from oldsters to youngsters. And secondly, no one has the balls to make a decision about anything because they don't want to be responsible for the outcome if they are wrong.

Noted Canadian fisheries scientist William E. Ricker had a saying, "Fisheries management isn't rocket science. It's much more complicated."

Very true. But to do nothing is criminal. Even if you try and don't get the result you want at least you're moving towards a solution. You know what won't work so you try something else. You adapt and you move ahead. I found that if you stay in the bureaucracy long enough the same old ideas just continue to pop up decades later.

Sadly, I've also observed that bright and dedicated people who want to do well and are enthusiastic about their work and take its burden very seriously, are soon crushed by the weight of the bureaucracy they inadvertently become part of.

I would argue that WDFW management of late could be classed as criminal. At least tragic if not outright criminally negligent.
 

Dustin Chromers

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
You just said it all…

No balls and BS (aka bureaucracy)

The best part of workin’ for someone, is to not be afraid of losing your job. Jobs are a dime a dozen and that mentality takes all the burden off of your shoulders and puts it on the bosses….nothing more liberating than that!!!

Ps: if you lose your job, your new job, is to find a new job or start your own business. 😉

That only works for people of desirable quality.
 
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DimeBrite

Saltwater fly fisherman
Will ocean acidification help to stop the European Green Crab?
 

HauntedByWaters

Life of the Party
no one has the balls to make a decision about anything because they don't want to be responsible for the outcome if they are wrong.

This is it right here. When will the government workers learn that someone will always be mad so just do what your experience and education tells you is best. You will never please everybody.

We truly have a system that does not put leaders at the wheel. Our system puts roll overs and do nothings at the wheel.
 
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Salmo_g

Legend
Forum Supporter
You will never please everybody.
Bureaucracy is not about pleasing anyone. Bureaucracy is about NOT displeasing someone who can negatively affect your career. Making a decision is far more likely to result in displeasing someone, while not making any decisions somehow avoids both pleasing and displeasing - at least to the point of receiving an official reprimand in one's personnel file. Weird, ain't it?
 

HauntedByWaters

Life of the Party
Bureaucracy is not about pleasing anyone. Bureaucracy is about NOT displeasing someone who can negatively affect your career. Making a decision is far more likely to result in displeasing someone, while not making any decisions somehow avoids both pleasing and displeasing - at least to the point of receiving an official reprimand in one's personnel file. Weird, ain't it?

I fully understand. Great summary.
 
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