Tuna dirtbag trip

Nick Clayton

Fishing Is Neat
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As I've done more and more fly trips the last few years, often getting more troll hookups than our other boats, Mark and other captains have definitely played with flies on gear rods. Success has been hit and miss. My guess is adding a bullet weight somehow changes the natural action, or more likely just how it rides in the water or something. It works, but I am very confident in saying not as well as flies fished under heavy sinking lines.

I definitely agree that having too many troll rods is not a good thing. We fish a 5 rod spread on our standard charters, but we also have 8 people total onboard so converting is not an issue as long as people are competent. Usually by this time of year I'll stop running the two rods off the outriggers and just fish 3 off the stern, mostly because the fish tend to get so focused on bait that converting faster is more important, and the troll bite often wanes this time of year. This year has been an exception to that experience. Great fishing overall, but they are still responding to the troll extremely well and while we're getting plenty on bait we aren't seeing much of that wide open bait stop type of stuff either, so I've kept my standard program going.

I used to be of the mind set that fly rod fish took longer but at this point I don't see it that way. Just like with gear rods it comes down to the angler. Many people can land fly rod fish every bit as fast as most gear fish. It's all about fighting them aggressively. Most of my usual gear charter customers fight them too timidly and you'd be amazed how long it takes them. In the right hands fly rod fish can be landed quite quickly. I could probably land a troll fish with a gear rod slightly faster with our heavy gear rods vs a fly rod fish, but the difference would be negligible.

Its a tough thing to wrap ones brain around, but you can put a ton of pressure on those fish and fight them quite aggressively, and with the right technique get them in quite quickly.
 

Cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
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Oh yeah. Had another totally unexpected encounter with this obviously non sea bird. Poor little guy was exhausted. Actually came into the cabin. He re-fueled on some dead bugs and disappeared.

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View attachment 32186
Cool find. It is probably an American pipit. They breed in Alaska and the Canadian Arctic and down the Rockies toward Colorado. They winter from Washington to Central America and the Gulf Coast of the U.S.
Steve
 

Nick Clayton

Fishing Is Neat
Forum Supporter
Funny you should mention porpoise, today there was most porpoise in the area I had planned on starting than I have seen in many years. Just thousands of them everywhere. I had to run an extra several miles just to get past them all so I could stop and start fishing.

At one point I came up on a full on birdnado of terns. Probably 200 plus terns just going ape shit on about an acre of water. As I got closer I could see what must have been a thousand Pacific white sides and some Dalls. Then I saw a rather large mako come flying out of the water right in the middle of it. It then proceeded to jump about 20 more times. It was national geographic type shit. Very cool.
 

SilverFly

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
As I've done more and more fly trips the last few years, often getting more troll hookups than our other boats, Mark and other captains have definitely played with flies on gear rods. Success has been hit and miss. My guess is adding a bullet weight somehow changes the natural action, or more likely just how it rides in the water or something. It works, but I am very confident in saying not as well as flies fished under heavy sinking lines.

I definitely agree that having too many troll rods is not a good thing. We fish a 5 rod spread on our standard charters, but we also have 8 people total onboard so converting is not an issue as long as people are competent. Usually by this time of year I'll stop running the two rods off the outriggers and just fish 3 off the stern, mostly because the fish tend to get so focused on bait that converting faster is more important, and the troll bite often wanes this time of year. This year has been an exception to that experience. Great fishing overall, but they are still responding to the troll extremely well and while we're getting plenty on bait we aren't seeing much of that wide open bait stop type of stuff either, so I've kept my standard program going.

I used to be of the mind set that fly rod fish took longer but at this point I don't see it that way. Just like with gear rods it comes down to the angler. Many people can land fly rod fish every bit as fast as most gear fish. It's all about fighting them aggressively. Most of my usual gear charter customers fight them too timidly and you'd be amazed how long it takes them. In the right hands fly rod fish can be landed quite quickly. I could probably land a troll fish with a gear rod slightly faster with our heavy gear rods vs a fly rod fish, but the difference would be negligible.

Its a tough thing to wrap ones brain around, but you can put a ton of pressure on those fish and fight them quite aggressively, and with the right technique get them in quite quickly.

It's easy to focus on what's being trolled and forget about how a fly line affects the action as well. On our way in Tuesday, after getting 4 hits on the squid fly in less than an hour, we were discussing how to emulate fly trolling using smaller profile gear stuff. I was going to suggest flies with bullet weights, but reading the above, that doesn't sound like a full solution for a gear crew.

So Nick, has anyone tried rigging a troll rod with a reel-on "top shot" of say, 30' of T-12 or whatever? I'd think longer/lighter with T-line vs a short/heavy section to get better "wiggle" action for lack of a better term. Smooth reel-on connections might take some doing but shouldn't be too hard to pull off.

Also agree with it's how fish are fought versus the rod they are being fought on. Yes, there is some advantage with shorter/stouter gear rods but mostly that advantage is at the rail and when it's time for a gaff or net. But even then it's not a huge deal if you've done it a few times. That's one reason I made a point of netting the one fly rod fish I landed myself. I wanted those guys to see that a fly rod can spank tuna in short order, and landing one isn't necessarily some delicate/complicated process.

BTW, hopefully my frustrations with the standard troll game Tuesday didn't come off as derogatory towards the Capt and acting deck boss. They were a great crew, all very good/experienced fishermen, and made some new friends. As I explained to them, it took me a while to wrap my head around the idea that flimsy little flies will often out-fish big/flashy troll lures.
 

Matt B

RAMONES
Forum Supporter
I used to be of the mind set that fly rod fish took longer but at this point I don't see it that way. Just like with gear rods it comes down to the angler. Many people can land fly rod fish every bit as fast as most gear fish. It's all about fighting them aggressively. Most of my usual gear charter customers fight them too timidly and you'd be amazed how long it takes them. In the right hands fly rod fish can be landed quite quickly. I could probably land a troll fish with a gear rod slightly faster with our heavy gear rods vs a fly rod fish, but the difference would be negligible.

Its a tough thing to wrap ones brain around, but you can put a ton of pressure on those fish and fight them quite aggressively, and with the right technique get them in quite quickly.
Also agree with it's how fish are fought versus the rod they are being fought on. Yes, there is some advantage with shorter/stouter gear rods but mostly that advantage is at the rail and when it's time for a gaff or net. But even then it's not a huge deal if you've done it a few times. That's one reason I made a point of netting the one fly rod fish I landed myself. I wanted those guys to see that a fly rod can spank tuna in short order, and landing one isn't necessarily some delicate/complicated process.
And here I thought some fish simply won't cooperate, may be larger, and are harder to land! Sounds like I just need to work on technique and I guess hit the gym.
1663263004340.png
 

SilverFly

Life of the Party
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And here I thought some fish simply won't cooperate, may be larger, and are harder to land! Sounds like I just need to work on technique and I guess hit the gym.
View attachment 32279
Thanks. Think that's my new mantra for cranking albacore that's gone deep ... "I'm going to PAAMP YOU UP!". Short pumps, low rod angle of course.
 

Chucker

Steelhead
Do the trolled flies get to any depth, or are they within an inch or two of the surface? When I was involved in tuna trolling decades ago, our most effective lures were ones that would actually skip along the surface. I would be willing to try trolling a fly on conventional gear without any weight added and just letting it drag in the surface film, or maybe trolling a slider. It works for coho!
 

SilverFly

Life of the Party
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Do the trolled flies get to any depth, or are they within an inch or two of the surface? When I was involved in tuna trolling decades ago, our most effective lures were ones that would actually skip along the surface. I would be willing to try trolling a fly on conventional gear without any weight added and just letting it drag in the surface film, or maybe trolling a slider. It works for coho!
Seems like it might work, but that would be another question for Nick. I've seen troll hits where this little black triangle (albacore nose) pops up behind a fly at or just below the surface.
 

Sam Roffe

If a man ain't fishing...
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Some of those birds probably are on their migration south. I wonder if it got into unfavorable winds and blew him out to sea. Poor guy. Glad you guys were a island of refuge.
 

Nick Clayton

Fishing Is Neat
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So Nick, has anyone tried rigging a troll rod with a reel-on "top shot" of say, 30' of T-12 or whatever? I'd think longer/lighter with T-line vs a short/heavy section to get better "wiggle" action for lack of a better term. Smooth reel-on connections might take some doing but shouldn't be too hard to pull off


Often thought about it but haven't tried it. If I was just fun fishing I'd have tried it long ago, but as a charter it's a fairly expensive risk. I have every confidence it would work well, but if you saw the issues I deal with on a regular basis involving tangles and cut offs from folks who don't follow their fish you'd know why I'm not super excited about spending money on an experiment that would likely be ruined within the day lol
 

Nick Clayton

Fishing Is Neat
Forum Supporter
Do the trolled flies get to any depth, or are they within an inch or two of the surface? When I was involved in tuna trolling decades ago, our most effective lures were ones that would actually skip along the surface. I would be willing to try trolling a fly on conventional gear without any weight added and just letting it drag in the surface film, or maybe trolling a slider. It works for coho!


It would work to an extent, but IMO not as well as something below the surface. I've seen skipping stuff catch fish on the troll but I also believe it may not be as easy for a tuna to see from 60-100' down. This sort of stuff also tends to not fish very well on average to sloppy oceans. When I've seen it work it's been on greasy, flat calm days, which unfortunately we don't see much of.

Commercial guys and some sport folks like to troll "birds" in line up from their troll lures. Birds just drag the surface and make a huge commotion which attracts attention. Fish come check it out then see the lure a ways behind. Personally I'm not a believer in them, but some folks dig em.
 

Evan B

Bobber Downey Jr.
Staff member
Admin
It would work to an extent, but IMO not as well as something below the surface. I've seen skipping stuff catch fish on the troll but I also believe it may not be as easy for a tuna to see from 60-100' down. This sort of stuff also tends to not fish very well on average to sloppy oceans. When I've seen it work it's been on greasy, flat calm days, which unfortunately we don't see much of.

Commercial guys and some sport folks like to troll "birds" in line up from their troll lures. Birds just drag the surface and make a huge commotion which attracts attention. Fish come check it out then see the lure a ways behind. Personally I'm not a believer in them, but some folks dig em.
I mean, I don't get why birds are necessary when you have a 25-40' bird making a ruckus in front of the spread already.

Edit: I do like a light spreader bar, though. almost all of our troll fish came on a spreader bar with the black/purple mini hoochies on it with a black and purple mini jet behind it. The dorado ate that, too.
 
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wanderingrichard

Life of the Party
Oh yeah. Had another totally unexpected encounter with this obviously non sea bird. Poor little guy was exhausted. Actually came into the cabin. He re-fueled on some dead bugs laying behind the windshield then disappeared.

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Teasing...

I can see it now, he gets about halfway back and "UGH I should have never ate those gas station burrito bugs...."
 
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