Proposed Coastal Steelhead Rules

[brownheron]

Apologies if this has already been posted. The proposed rule presentation from the WDFW town halls.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/112822coastalsteelheadppt.pdf

• Willapa System-Open December 1-March 31 (select tributaries Feb. 28th), selective gear rules, single
point barbless hook, no fishing from a floating device, release wild rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead
bag limit.
• Chehalis River-Open December 1-December 16th , Satsop (Schafer State Park downstream) and
mainstem Chehalis (Oakville boat launch downstream), selective gear rules, single point barbless hook,
no fishing from a floating device, release wild rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead bag limit. Treaty
fishery (6 days).
• Humptulips River-Open December 1-December 16th (101 bridge downstream). Treaty fishery (6
days), elective gear rules, single point barbless hook, no fishing from a floating device, release wild
rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead bag limit.
• Quinault River-Proposed December 1-March 31, selective gear rules, no fishing from a floating
device, release wild rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead bag limit. Closed. *Treaty Fishery (56.2 days).
• Queets/Clearwater River-Closed December 1-April 30. *Treaty Fishery (36 days).
• Quillayute System-Open December 1-March 31, selective gear rules, single point barbless hook.
Expanded boat fishing in Sol Duc River. Fishing from a floating device allowed in mainstem Quillayute,
below Maxfield boat ramp on Sol Duc, below 101 bridge on Calawah and below hatchery (Mill Creek)
on Bogachiel. Release wild rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead bag limit. Treaty fishery (52.7 days).
• Hoh River-Open December 1-March 31, selective gear rules, no fishing from a floating device, release
wild rainbow trout, 2 hatchery steelhead bag limit. Treaty Fishery (18 days).

*No comanager agreement

 

[ianpadron]

A quick look at the Quinault and Queets systems tells a fella everything he needs to know about Steelhead in WA.

During the town hall tonight, it was painful watching Losee and Cunningham dodge any and all questions pertaining to the tribes.

You see it all the time on the forums as well, the tribes are entirely off limits unless you want to be permanently canceled and labeled as a bigot by our fellow anglers with woke tendencies.

Better news than last year, but still a sad state of affairs.

If anyone cares to make the case that close to 100 cumulative days of gill netting should have any part in the management plan for coastal fish...save your breath.

 

[SeaRunner]

I didn't attend the townhall last night. Do I understand it correctly that the Quinault tribe dictated to the State that the entire Chehalis system was to close after December 16th? Meanwhile, the Quinault tribe intends to net the Quinault River for 56 days and Queets for 36 days when there is no State fishery on those rivers because the State can't get agreement from the tribe?

 

[Evan B]

You see it all the time on the forums as well, the tribes are entirely off limits unless you want to be permanently canceled and labeled as a bigot by our fellow anglers with woke tendencies.

I have had a very different experience. I see very little support for tribal gillnetting in the angling community, online or off. I have even met fishermen from non-gillnetting tribes who carry a lot of animosity to the fishing practices on those systems.

 

[charles sullivan]

I didn't attend the townhall last night. Do I understand it correctly that the Quinault tribe dictated to the State that the entire Chehalis system was to close after December 16th? Meanwhile, the Quinault tribe intends to net the Quinault River for 56 days and Queets for 36 days when there is no State fishery on those rivers because the State can't get agreement from the tribe?

Interesting. I'm curious about how the tribe dictated anything. What was the leverage?

As far as the netting on the Q systems, I think that shows exactly how co-management works (or doesn't work). The state would take a lot of heat if they opened those rivers given their returns. The tribes will not or don't care. The state has little to no power or leverage in this scenario.

 

[charles sullivan]

A quick look at the Quinault and Queets systems tells a fella everything he needs to know about Steelhead in WA.

During the town hall tonight, it was painful watching Losee and Cunningham dodge any and all questions pertaining to the tribes.

You see it all the time on the forums as well, the tribes are entirely off limits unless you want to be permanently canceled and labeled as a bigot by our fellow anglers with woke tendencies.

Better news than last year, but still a sad state of affairs.

If anyone cares to make the case that close to 100 cumulative days of gill netting should have any part in the management plan for coastal fish...save your breath.

What do you think that he state should do?

 

[Evan B]

The tribes will not or don't care. The state has little to no power or leverage in this scenario.

Exactly. They don't care if anyone else catches fish, and they don't care if they wipe out an entire run because they can just pump more hatchery fish in. The Quinualt is a fish farm more or less. I believe it's all broodstock, so at least something resembling the wild genetics is still there, but that river is not managed for wild escapement.

This is a topic I haven't really been involved with in some time, and am guilty of developing apathy toward it. I have some streams in Oregon that have filled this part of my life, and I don't have to deal with the politics of co-management. I was definitely very worked up about it when I was a Washington resident. But I saw how little could actually be done since the tribes can essentially do anything they want.

 

[Paige]

Just go fish, fuck the Quinaults!

Get a good old fashioned "fish in" on the Queets a couple times in protest!

 

[ianpadron]

I didn't attend the townhall last night. Do I understand it correctly that the Quinault tribe dictated to the State that the entire Chehalis system was to close after December 16th? Meanwhile, the Quinault tribe intends to net the Quinault River for 56 days and Queets for 36 days when there is no State fishery on those rivers because the State can't get agreement from the tribe?

Correct

 

[ianpadron]

What do you think that he state should do?

Well in an ideal world, the Boldt decision should be re-visited and overturned. Entitling 4% of the population to 50% of the resources, while allowing those users to implement the least selective methods of take is mind-numbing.

For those who will argue the precedent has been set and it will never be overturned...

"The State" has proven during the last 3 years that it has the power and influence to do whatever the F it wants, regardless of what the law says...Old Kaiser Jay could have just as easily penned an emergency order to stop all gill-netting as the myriad of batshit orders he turned out instead. Tribes are sovereign? Cool, we also have/had a state constitution that apparently doesn't matter if "the state" deems it so.

When you watch "the state" go full-on dystopian empire on some issues, and captive woke-ling on others, it really undermines a guy's faith in the system as a whole.

"The State" is a top down system of corruption and yes-men, with good honest guys like the fish bios and game wardens being held hostage by their paycheck, unable to speak their minds publicly. I know that to be 100% accurate based off private convos. with both of those demographics. When a supposedly independent agency designed to help our fish and game animals flourish, is no longer able to do its job due to fear of being reprimanded, we've reached the point of no-return.

Fact of the matter is that the tribes are getting away with murder in WA, and the social environment has built a bubble around them where they cannot be criticized, regardless of how severe their shortcomings are. If anglers exist in the tribal communities that share the same disdain towards antiquated practices like gill-netting, where are they? Awful silent the past decade as we've watched the bottom fall out of Puget Sound and Coastal Fisheries...CnR opportunities have disappeared, yet the nets remain.

"No dude, I don't have a problem with you netting fish because your skin is brown, I have a problem with you netting fish because they're on the strug bus and you're killing them."

Such a simple issue made exponentially more complex due to the same old social and political hierarchies that have ruined every other aspect of life in the PNW.

Rant over, it's just hard to describe how frustrating it is to watch something you love be whittled down to nothing, while no actions are ever taken that actually make a difference by the very agency that supposedly exists to look out for our resources.

Who wants to talk about the Spring Bear hunt while we're at it? Jk...

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Can't wait to see how busy those stretches where you can fish from your boat get.

 

[Dr. Magill]

Well in an ideal world, the Boldt decision should be re-visited and overturned. Entitling 4% of the population to 50% of the resources, while allowing those users to implement the least selective methods of take is mind-numbing.

For those who will argue the precedent has been set and it will never be overturned...

"The State" has proven during the last 3 years that it has the power and influence to do whatever the F it wants, regardless of what the law says...Old Kaiser Jay could have just as easily penned an emergency order to stop all gill-netting as the myriad of batshit orders he turned out instead. Tribes are sovereign? Cool, we also have/had a state constitution that apparently doesn't matter if "the state" deems it so.

When you watch "the state" go full-on dystopian empire on some issues, and captive woke-ling on others, it really undermines a guy's faith in the system as a whole.

"The State" is a top down system of corruption and yes-men, with good honest guys like the fish bios and game wardens being held hostage by their paycheck, unable to speak their minds publicly. I know that to be 100% accurate based off private convos. with both of those demographics. When a supposedly independent agency designed to help our fish and game animals flourish, is no longer able to do its job due to fear of being reprimanded, we've reached the point of no-return.

Fact of the matter is that the tribes are getting away with murder in WA, and the social environment has built a bubble around them where they cannot be criticized, regardless of how severe their shortcomings are. If anglers exist in the tribal communities that share the same disdain towards antiquated practices like gill-netting, where are they? Awful silent the past decade as we've watched the bottom fall out of Puget Sound and Coastal Fisheries...CnR opportunities have disappeared, yet the nets remain.

"No dude, I don't have a problem with you netting fish because your skin is brown, I have a problem with you netting fish because they're on the strug bus and you're killing them."

Such a simple issue made exponentially more complex due to the same old social and political hierarchies that have ruined every other aspect of life in the PNW.

Rant over, it's just hard to describe how frustrating it is to watch something you love be whittled down to nothing, while no actions are ever taken that actually make a difference by the very agency that supposedly exists to look out for our resources.

Who wants to talk about the Spring Bear hunt while we're at it? Jk...

Might cause an issue but I thought this post to be on target

 

[ianpadron]

Can't wait to see how busy those stretches where you can fish from your boat get.

Aquatic version of I-5 between Everett and Marysville

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Well in an ideal world, the Boldt decision should be re-visited and overturned. Entitling 4% of the population to 50% of the resources, while allowing those users to implement the least selective methods of take is mind-numbing.

For those who will argue the precedent has been set and it will never be overturned...

"The State" has proven during the last 3 years that it has the power and influence to do whatever the F it wants, regardless of what the law says...Old Kaiser Jay could have just as easily penned an emergency order to stop all gill-netting as the myriad of batshit orders he turned out instead. Tribes are sovereign? Cool, we also have/had a state constitution that apparently doesn't matter if "the state" deems it so.

When you watch "the state" go full-on dystopian empire on some issues, and captive woke-ling on others, it really undermines a guy's faith in the system as a whole.

"The State" is a top down system of corruption and yes-men, with good honest guys like the fish bios and game wardens being held hostage by their paycheck, unable to speak their minds publicly. I know that to be 100% accurate based off private convos. with both of those demographics. When a supposedly independent agency designed to help our fish and game animals flourish, is no longer able to do its job due to fear of being reprimanded, we've reached the point of no-return.

Fact of the matter is that the tribes are getting away with murder in WA, and the social environment has built a bubble around them where they cannot be criticized, regardless of how severe their shortcomings are. If anglers exist in the tribal communities that share the same disdain towards antiquated practices like gill-netting, where are they? Awful silent the past decade as we've watched the bottom fall out of Puget Sound and Coastal Fisheries...CnR opportunities have disappeared, yet the nets remain.

"No dude, I don't have a problem with you netting fish because your skin is brown, I have a problem with you netting fish because they're on the strug bus and you're killing them."

Such a simple issue made exponentially more complex due to the same old social and political hierarchies that have ruined every other aspect of life in the PNW.

Rant over, it's just hard to describe how frustrating it is to watch something you love be whittled down to nothing, while no actions are ever taken that actually make a difference by the very agency that supposedly exists to look out for our resources.

Who wants to talk about the Spring Bear hunt while we're at it? Jk...

Why would Jay alienate one of his top campaign funding contributors?

I've basically given up making sense of Washington politics and pseudo "conservation" measures concerning salmon and especially steelhead. Frankly I've given up fishing for steelhead as well. It's over. The angling culture and the resource strength just isn't anything I want to be a part of anymore. Anglers are rude, uneducated, and entitled. The tribe does what it wants and I get to see the nets strung across the chehalis when I have to drive to town. It's all sickening and I don't have the stomach for it. I think the state should shut it all down and leave it alone as far as steelhead go. No fishing for anyone, no hatcheries, no contact or what passes for "management" in the department. Their track record is basically anything they touch turns to shit. I say quit touching and keep your hands to yourself.

 

[Shad]

Exactly. They don't care if anyone else catches fish, and they don't care if they wipe out an entire run because they can just pump more hatchery fish in. The Quinualt is a fish farm more or less. I believe it's all broodstock, so at least something resembling the wild genetics is still there, but that river is not managed for wild escapement.

This is a topic I haven't really been involved with in some time, and am guilty of developing apathy toward it. I have some streams in Oregon that have filled this part of my life, and I don't have to deal with the politics of co-management. I was definitely very worked up about it when I was a Washington resident. But I saw how little could actually be done since the tribes can essentially do anything they want.

Meanwhile, the nearby Queets, also something of a fish farm until February, is still home to some of the biggest, baddest wild steelhead left on the planet in December/January. It appears the Quinault Tribe plans to turn it into another Quinault: a pay to play fish farm. For some reason, our state is letting them do it, completely free of resistance. That's our National Park, not their reservation. As long as they are gillnetting down low, there is no reason we shouldn't be allowed to C&R above their precious, culture-defining hatchery factories.

2 weeks in Grays Harbor beats nothing, but hardly.... Why the hell couldn't they close the mainstem Chehalis December 17 (to protect early-timed, upper basin fish) and leave the Nooch, Satsop, and Hump open through January for hatchery fish? According to their own research, the wild fish don't start returning to those rivers in numbers before February....

There's room for more opportunity upstream, but not unless the gillnets are in down low. That's the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in. As long as the QIN can't gillnet the Lower Chehalis, we can't fish ANY of the enormous amount of water upstream, full stop.

 

[Salmo_g]

Interesting. I'm curious about how the tribe dictated anything. What was the leverage?

NOF (North of Falcon) The treaty tribes inform WDFW what the non-treaty fishery will get. The more WDFW resists, the less we non-treaty fishers get. As long as WDFW continues to agree to the behind closed doors negotiations with the tribes, it's a great deal for the tribes. If WDFW doesn't agree to closed doors, then the tribes walk out, and we get even less than we already do. While NOF applies only to salmon management, the tribes can use that leverage to control non-treaty fishing for gamefish in freshwater as well.

 

[Salmo_g]

Well in an ideal world, the Boldt decision should be re-visited and overturned. Entitling 4% of the population to 50% of the resources, while allowing those users to implement the least selective methods of take is mind-numbing.

For those who will argue the precedent has been set and it will never be overturned...

"The State" has proven during the last 3 years that it has the power and influence to do whatever the F it wants, regardless of what the law says...Old Kaiser Jay could have just as easily penned an emergency order to stop all gill-netting as the myriad of batshit orders he turned out instead. Tribes are sovereign? Cool, we also have/had a state constitution that apparently doesn't matter if "the state" deems it so.

When you watch "the state" go full-on dystopian empire on some issues, and captive woke-ling on others, it really undermines a guy's faith in the system as a whole.

"The State" is a top down system of corruption and yes-men, with good honest guys like the fish bios and game wardens being held hostage by their paycheck, unable to speak their minds publicly. I know that to be 100% accurate based off private convos. with both of those demographics. When a supposedly independent agency designed to help our fish and game animals flourish, is no longer able to do its job due to fear of being reprimanded, we've reached the point of no-return.

Fact of the matter is that the tribes are getting away with murder in WA, and the social environment has built a bubble around them where they cannot be criticized, regardless of how severe their shortcomings are. If anglers exist in the tribal communities that share the same disdain towards antiquated practices like gill-netting, where are they? Awful silent the past decade as we've watched the bottom fall out of Puget Sound and Coastal Fisheries...CnR opportunities have disappeared, yet the nets remain.

"No dude, I don't have a problem with you netting fish because your skin is brown, I have a problem with you netting fish because they're on the strug bus and you're killing them."

Such a simple issue made exponentially more complex due to the same old social and political hierarchies that have ruined every other aspect of life in the PNW.

Rant over, it's just hard to describe how frustrating it is to watch something you love be whittled down to nothing, while no actions are ever taken that actually make a difference by the very agency that supposedly exists to look out for our resources.

Who wants to talk about the Spring Bear hunt while we're at it? Jk...

Ian,

In an "ideal" world for whom? Treaty fishing by tribes is not an entitlement, regardless of how others feel about it. It is a treaty reserved right, protected by federal law. The treaty was enacted at a time when Indians still outnumbered whites, even if not by a very large amount. Legally, it doesn't matter what percentage of the state's population is treaty Indian. I strongly doubt that revisiting Boldt would result in it being overturned, because the applicable laws have not changed. Only Congress can change the applicable law. Former WA state Senator Slade Gorton attempted to do just that in the 1980s, and the effort fell flat on its face. Sentiment toward Indians switched from anti to pro in that time period, and there is little to no indication that it has changed.

Actions by the WA state governor and legislature are irrelevant in anything pertaining to treaty Indian fishing. The treaties are federal, and federal law trumps state law every single time.

Despite how you feel about this subject, there are analyses indicating that the present status of steelhead populations statewide, with the possible exception of the Quinault and Queets, is unaffected by either treaty or non-treaty fishing over the last 40 years. That doesn't mean that steelhead runs are at historically high abundance; far from it. What it means is that even if no steelhead fishing at all, treaty and non-treaty, had occurred over the past 40 years, most of the wild steelhead populations would be in the same status of low abundance as they presently are. Droughts, floods, and higher water temperatures have had some negative effects on freshwater productivity. But the over-riding consideration factor, by a very long shot, has been the very severe reduction in ocean survival rates. That could be due to increased predation, decreased primary and secondary productivity, competition, and probably more. The take home point being, for every 100 steelhead smolts entering salt water these days, fewer return subsequently as adults than did 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

 

[charles sullivan]

Well in an ideal world, the Boldt decision should be re-visited and overturned. Entitling 4% of the population to 50% of the resources, while allowing those users to implement the least selective methods of take is mind-numbing.

For those who will argue the precedent has been set and it will never be overturned...

"The State" has proven during the last 3 years that it has the power and influence to do whatever the F it wants, regardless of what the law says...Old Kaiser Jay could have just as easily penned an emergency order to stop all gill-netting as the myriad of batshit orders he turned out instead. Tribes are sovereign? Cool, we also have/had a state constitution that apparently doesn't matter if "the state" deems it so.

When you watch "the state" go full-on dystopian empire on some issues, and captive woke-ling on others, it really undermines a guy's faith in the system as a whole.

"The State" is a top down system of corruption and yes-men, with good honest guys like the fish bios and game wardens being held hostage by their paycheck, unable to speak their minds publicly. I know that to be 100% accurate based off private convos. with both of those demographics. When a supposedly independent agency designed to help our fish and game animals flourish, is no longer able to do its job due to fear of being reprimanded, we've reached the point of no-return.

Fact of the matter is that the tribes are getting away with murder in WA, and the social environment has built a bubble around them where they cannot be criticized, regardless of how severe their shortcomings are. If anglers exist in the tribal communities that share the same disdain towards antiquated practices like gill-netting, where are they? Awful silent the past decade as we've watched the bottom fall out of Puget Sound and Coastal Fisheries...CnR opportunities have disappeared, yet the nets remain.

"No dude, I don't have a problem with you netting fish because your skin is brown, I have a problem with you netting fish because they're on the strug bus and you're killing them."

Such a simple issue made exponentially more complex due to the same old social and political hierarchies that have ruined every other aspect of life in the PNW.

Rant over, it's just hard to describe how frustrating it is to watch something you love be whittled down to nothing, while no actions are ever taken that actually make a difference by the very agency that supposedly exists to look out for our resources.

Who wants to talk about the Spring Bear hunt while we're at it? Jk...

You understand that the state can't unilaterally overturn Boldt no? It is a federal treaty. It has been adjudicated. I am not sure that there are even appeal rights at this point. Regardless of whatever else you may believe to be the case, it's a federal treaty. It isn't any different than an arms control treaty with Russia. The State is powerless. You can scream louder and be angrier but in the end, if you are screaming at The State of Washington, you are pissing in the wind. Federal treaties are more powerful than nearly anything else.

 

[charles sullivan]

NOF (North of Falcon) The treaty tribes inform WDFW what the non-treaty fishery will get. The more WDFW resists, the less we non-treaty fishers get. As long as WDFW continues to agree to the behind closed doors negotiations with the tribes, it's a great deal for the tribes. If WDFW doesn't agree to closed doors, then the tribes walk out, and we get even less than we already do. While NOF applies only to salmon management, the tribes can use that leverage to control non-treaty fishing for gamefish in freshwater as well.

I agree with you 100%

What then should WDFW do?

How do the not abdicate their role in harvest management given the process that they must go through to permit their fisheries?

Take for instance, the state moving slowly opening announcing a C&R season. It's been delayed as they wait to get agreement with the Upper Skagit Tribe on their run size forecast. I could make the case that it is functional co-management. Would it be wise to fall on the sword of expediency in this case? I mean this may be one of the few times that the state and the tribes may agree on something. What value would be placed on doing it quicker vs. the risk of losing the tribe as a potential ally on this one angling opportunity?

Everyone screams about "the state" or WDFW when it comes to these issues. No one seems to care enough to figure out he actual dynamic. If there was one thing that I learned going to those meetings to open the river it's that you have to understand the permitting pathway and the leverage any stakeholder may have. It seems to me that many people would rather get righteously indignant than to try and figure out a new path or find a way to change the paradigm. People love to get worked up and righteous. So often it get's in the way of actual success.

I am a bit past getting my kicks from emotion over fishing opportunities. I would much rather use that energy for productive things.

 

[Rob Allen]

I have a better suggestion. That's much simpler and just as conservation minded.

Steelhead. Open year around , catch and release. Except 2 hatchery fish of course.One single point barbless hook.
No bait above Hatcheries.
All wild fish release.
Tribal netting only seine nets with 1" rubberized mesh. Wild steelhead release.

Retention of hatchery steelhead mandatory above the hatchery they came from or above planting sites. If they are too dark for table fare you may cut off the dorsal and leave it but you have to punch it and it goes against your daily limit.


Ohh and the cutting off the dorsal is to identify it as a legally wasted fish.