Hook sizes

[Mike Cline]

With the advent of online shopping I think there absolutely needs to be some standards. I won't try any new hooks until I can see them in person which is hard to do when the nearest fly shop is 30 miles up the interstate. @Northern's idea of a ruler in the picture and description would help.

Convince the online retailers to do it! Or ask the manufacturers to put the info on their websites. However it is a big ask based on the sheer volume of information being sought. Both J. Stockard and Feather-Craft are pretty prominent leaders in the online fly tying market. They both produce some nice print catalogs. Both have long sections listing their hook offerings with pictures of the hook model and a description for each hook brand/model they sell. I did a quick calculation based on the 2023 J. Stockard catalog as to the scope of having a hook picture with measurements for each model/size of hook. Feather-Craft is similar.

319 Hook models from: J2 (19), Daiichi (49), Lighting Strike (2), Firehole (24), Core (24), Tiemco (32), Mustad (28), Gamakatsu (15), Hanak (12), Umpqua (12), Ahrex (69), Fulling Mill (13) and Partridge (12).

Average span of hook sizes available for each model = 7. Some models have more, some less.

= a potential of a requirement for 2200+ images in both print and online catalogs. That’s a lot of work $$$ to be created, proofed and updated for accuracy. It might be easy for big outfits like J. Stockard, but smaller online retailers—fly shops, etc. might find the cost overwhelming (although they won’t be handling the same volume of fly hook models).

So I’ll close with this question. Would any forum members find it useful for an online retailer like J. Stockard to add 2200+ images of hook models with dimensions for each model size to their print and online catalogs. Do you think they would agree with you?

 

[Wayne Kohan]

Based on fly tying materials revenues listed in this report, probably ~10% of those anglers (380,000) at some time tie their own flies. What % of tiers in the U.S. do you believe would agree with the position that fly hook sizing is a compelling issue that needs to change and manufacturers would improve their sales if the change desired is adopted?

Again, as has been clearly stated above, this is a customer service, marketing issue and not a technical standards issue. Consumers who have issues with a particular manufacturers products need to lobby those entities directly, as they are the only recourse to changing their products, marketing and labeling.

The other 90% of fly fisherpeople are buying flies, many of them over the internet. So when they order a size 12 elk hair caddis, do they need to know what manufacturer made the hooks they were tied on? Otherwise they won't know what size fly they are really getting. But I guess it is not important really, as it is not a technical standards issue....

I've seen where you have referred to a fly as a size 22 midge in a past post, so I guess that statement means nothing by your arguments.

 

[Mike Cline]

I've seen where you have referred to a fly as a size 22 midge in a past post, so I guess that statement means nothing by your arguments.

To the contrary. It means that whatever size 22 fly I was talking about was tied on a hook from a model/size labeled size 22. Exact dimensions irrelevant to the functionality of the fly.

 

[Matt B]

Sweet, I’m gonna re-package some Size 4 streamer hooks in a pack that is labeled size 22, tie a streamer and catch a nice bull on it. Boom, 20/20 club.

 

[Northern]

Lol. I find that if you apply logic three or more times and it doesn't stick, it's time to move on...

 

[_WW_]

Convince the online retailers to do it! Or ask the manufacturers to put the info on their websites. However it is a big ask based on the sheer volume of information being sought. Both J. Stockard and Feather-Craft are pretty prominent leaders in the online fly tying market. They both produce some nice print catalogs. Both have long sections listing their hook offerings with pictures of the hook model and a description for each hook brand/model they sell. I did a quick calculation based on the 2023 J. Stockard catalog as to the scope of having a hook picture with measurements for each model/size of hook. Feather-Craft is similar.

319 Hook models from: J2 (19), Daiichi (49), Lighting Strike (2), Firehole (24), Core (24), Tiemco (32), Mustad (28), Gamakatsu (15), Hanak (12), Umpqua (12), Ahrex (69), Fulling Mill (13) and Partridge (12).

Average span of hook sizes available for each model = 7. Some models have more, some less.

= a potential of a requirement for 2200+ images in both print and online catalogs. That’s a lot of work $$$ to be created, proofed and updated for accuracy. It might be easy for big outfits like J. Stockard, but smaller online retailers—fly shops, etc. might find the cost overwhelming (although they won’t be handling the same volume of fly hook models).

So I’ll close with this question. Would any forum members find it useful for an online retailer like J. Stockard to add 2200+ images of hook models with dimensions for each model size to their print and online catalogs. Do you think they would agree with you?

Here's an image from the Stockard catalog.

What can you tell me about this hook?

 

[Brute]

Here's an image from the Stockard catalog.
View attachment 63537
What can you tell me about this hook?

It has a bend…

 

[_WW_]

It has a bend…

That's what makes it a hook. If it was straight it would be a pin.

 

[Mike Cline]

Here's an image from the Stockard catalog.
View attachment 63537
What can you tell me about this hook?

Well, you've provided incomplete information, selectively leaving out what is also listed in the catalog. This hook, whatever model it is has a description, purpose text and available sizes also listed in the catalog under one of the brands JS carries. Other than that, it appears barbless with a turned down eye.

 

[_WW_]

Well, you've provided incomplete information, selectively leaving out what is also listed in the catalog. This hook, whatever model it is has a description, purpose text and available sizes also listed in the catalog under one of the brands JS carries. Other than that, it appears barbless with a turned down eye.

1190 Barbless Dry Fly Hook

The Daiichi 1190 Barbless Dry Fly Hook is perfect for catch-and-release fly fishers looking to get a combination of good quality and affordable pricing.

www.jsflyfishing.com

There's the page.
Notice they mention "standard length, standard wire" So we have circled back around to - what is the fucking standard?

 

[RCF]

Y'all need to keep @Mike Cline fully engaged on this thread so that when I am in MT. on vacation, he will not be out chasing fish but rather chasing his tail...

 

[Mike Cline]

I was tying up some Humpy Hoppers this morning for a friend -- Humpy Backend, Hopper Front end. Usually tie these on a #6 curved hook as that reflects the typical size of adult hoppers here in SW Montana.

I chose to tie these on a few remaining TMC 2312 hooks I had stashed away.

Just for the heck of it, I hunted up other comparable #6 curved shanked hooks and laid them out together with a quick grid for comparison.
I came to this conclusion. All of these hooks (save one) are suitable for the pattern I was tying. The one hook not suitable is the TMC 200RBL. Crap hook. Breaks 50% of the time in the vice and is very brittle in use. (TMC didn't put that on the label. Maybe that's why TMC discontinued it). Other wise each of these hooks would work with the pattern well. They all differ slightly in some manner--eye style, gape width, and/or shank length. I cannot imagine that knowing the specific dimensions (whether off a label or manufacturers website) of each of these hooks would make them any of them more or less suitable for the pattern and thus influence my choice of hook.

 

[Mike Cline]

Y'all need to keep @Mike Cline fully engaged on this thread so that when I am in MT. on vacation, he will not be out chasing fish but rather chasing his tail...

Never fear, am off to 3 weeks of Florida sunshine and lots of inshore targets. When I am back here in SW Montana in late May, I'll be fishing but you'll never see me as I "Hit em where they aint"

 

[Mike Cline]

1190 Barbless Dry Fly Hook

The Daiichi 1190 Barbless Dry Fly Hook is perfect for catch-and-release fly fishers looking to get a combination of good quality and affordable pricing.

www.jsflyfishing.com

There's the page.
Notice they mention "standard length, standard wire" So we have circled back around to - what is the fucking standard?

Must be whatever Daiichi says it is! It's a bit like XSmall, Small, Medium, Large and XLarge--a lesson in relativity. One rarely knows exactly what size that T-shirt is.