Endangered Squirrels

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
I am not arguing for or against the listing of this squirrel. As much as I hate to loose species, I’m a realist. Just saying when applied, the ESA has worked to increase populations in the majority of cases.

I guess all I am saying is we need to know all the details up front..
 

Zak

Legend
Forum Supporter
A big part of the ESA listing (not sure about state-level listings) is the designation and protection of critical habitat for the species. Many species become endangered (and extinct) because their habitat is being developed or logged or whatever. I'm a big fan of preserving the few wild spaces we have left, so protecting critical habitat is huge, to me.
 

Long_Rod_Silvers

Elder Millennial
Forum Supporter
A big part of the ESA listing (not sure about state-level listings) is the designation and protection of critical habitat for the species. Many species become endangered (and extinct) because their habitat is being developed or logged or whatever. I'm a big fan of preserving the few wild spaces we have left, so protecting critical habitat is huge, to me.
Well said. 100%
 
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Rob Allen

Life of the Party
That's tricky man. Not sure it's that simple always.
Hmmm well it's better than using ESA to punish hated industries and accomplish nothing for the endangered species. Which was I believe the sole purpose of the spotted owl listing. Few actually cared about the owls they just wanted to abuse the timber companies.
 

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
A big part of the ESA listing (not sure about state-level listings) is the designation and protection of critical habitat for the species. Many species become endangered (and extinct) because their habitat is being developed or logged or whatever. I'm a big fan of preserving the few wild spaces we have left, so protecting critical habitat is huge, to me.

I agree as long as that habitat is public property.
 
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Long_Rod_Silvers

Elder Millennial
Forum Supporter
Hmmm well it's better than using ESA to punish hated industries and accomplish nothing for the endangered species. Which was I believe the sole purpose of the spotted owl listing. Few actually cared about the owls they just wanted to abuse the timber companies.
It's not to punish them. It's to hold everyone accountable. If you own the land, you need to know what's going on and what happens if you modify your land use.
 

Zak

Legend
Forum Supporter
Hmmm well it's better than using ESA to punish hated industries and accomplish nothing for the endangered species. Which was I believe the sole purpose of the spotted owl listing. Few actually cared about the owls they just wanted to abuse the timber companies.
I like spotted owls, almost as much as I like the old growth forests they depend on. Protect spotted owl critical habitat, protect old growth forests.

Those activists didn't want to abuse the timber companies so much at they wanted to stop the timber companies from logging old growth.

Also, something about protecting timber companies from "abuse" by humans/citizens sticks in my craw. If they can't log in compliance with environmental laws, screw them.

The story of Charles Hurwitz/MAXXAM corp's hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber Company and then rapid liquidation of its assets (old growth redwoods), leading to Redwood Summer and the bombing of labor/environmental organizer Judi Barri, is quite a tale.
 
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Rob Allen

Life of the Party
I like spotted owls, almost as much as I like the old growth forests they depend on. Protect spotted owl critical habitat, protect old growth forests.

Those activists didn't want to abuse the timber companies so much at they wanted to stop the timber companies from logging old growth.

Also, something about protecting timber companies from "abuse" by humans/citizens sticks in my craw. If they can't log in compliance with environmental laws, screw them.

The story of Charles Hurwitz/MAXXAM corp's hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber Company and then rapid liquidation of its assets (old growth redwoods), leading to Redwood Summer and the bombing of labor/environmental organizer Judi Barri, is quite a tale.
I like all wildlife and think it should be protected but to protect forests they had to use ESA because of it's legal ramifications. It was not at the time, the will of the people to end logging on federal land. Spotted owls were just a political/legal tool to press the will of a small loud group.

Not saying that I disagree with the outcome, just the method.
 

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
It's not to punish them. It's to hold everyone accountable. If you own the land, you need to know what's going on and what happens if you modify your land use.
No, if you own land what goes on there is your business there should be very little public influence over what happens there.
 

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
"If they know the problem and can fix the problem for the squirrels by all means just do it"

Which one is it? Can't have both.

I already answered that, if private land use is vital to the survival of the squirrels then those that care about the squirrels need to convince the land owners of the value of saving the squirrels. If they can't do that then it falls into the category of " can't save the squirrels "
 

Long_Rod_Silvers

Elder Millennial
Forum Supporter
I already answered that, if private land use is vital to the survival of the squirrels then those that care about the squirrels need to convince the land owners of the value of saving the squirrels. If they can't do that then it falls into the category of " can't save the squirrels "
So your OK with private companies logging riparian zones?

Falls into the category of "can't save salmonids"?

Your OK with farmers drawing any/all the water they want from a stream or river?

Falls into the category of "can't save salmonids"?
 

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
So your OK with private companies logging riparian zones?

Falls into the category of "can't save salmonids"?

Your OK with farmers drawing any/all the water they want from a stream or river?

Falls into the category of "can't save salmonids"?
Already answered
"No, if you own land what goes on there is your business there should be very little public influence over what happens there"

Very little doesn't mean none.
 

wanderingrichard

Life of the Party
Gentlemen,
A bit more civility please. I'm starting to learn towards having this thread locked by the admins or deleted by me.
 

Mossback

Fear My Powerful Emojis 😆
Forum Supporter
I guess all I am saying is we need to know all the details up front..


If it requires ANY restrictions on human behavior beyond actually harvesting the squirrels I automatically oppose it.

If your mind is made up, why would you be interested in the details ?

There are many ESA successes...evidently you are unaware of that.
 
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