Deschutes Cuttbows?

[mattsavage]

I was fishing the lower Deschutes this weekend, caught a pretty nice rainbow on the nymph rig. Upon further inspection, I noticed a bit of a red marking underneath its jaw. Are there cuttbows in the Deschutes river (Oregon deschutes)? I’m sure it’s not impossible, but you just never hear about it. Or am I just over thinking this?

 

[mcswny]

I’ve never heard of or seen anything resembling a cut bow. But regardless, pretty fish.

 

[mattsavage]

I’ve never heard of or seen anything resembling a cut bow. But regardless, pretty fish.

Yeah, I’m probably looking too hard at the photo, maybe that’s a wound…

But all the other fish I caught today were the very traditional looking redside…

 

[Robert Engleheart]

If they have small teeth on the back of the tongue they are Cuttbows. Rainbows don’t.

 

[Draketake]

Never thought of this. However, why would it not be possible? A good chunk of the upper Columbia tribs have Cutts. Cuttbows are in the Crooked River here in Central Oregon. Id like to hear what others think or have observed.

Pretty fish. Good on you for getting out there.

Have a good weekend.

Bob

 

[PhilR]

It’d be the first I’ve heard of this in the D. Don’t you have to have cutts and bows first?

 

[Matt B]

I was fishing the lower Deschutes this weekend, caught a pretty nice rainbow on the nymph rig. Upon further inspection, I noticed a bit of a red marking underneath its jaw. Are there cuttbows in the Deschutes river (Oregon deschutes)? I’m sure it’s not impossible, but you just never hear about it. Or am I just over thinking this?

Apparently it’s a characteristic of some inland redbands, O mykiss gairdneri. They’re still rainbows. There are better citations out there but I am lazy right now:

The Difference Between Rainbow, Cutthroat, and Cut-Bow Trout - Flylords Mag

When asked to define the difference between a Rainbow Trout and a Cutthroat Trout, a biologist would tell you that although both species have different origins and ranges, they are both members of the same family and genus Salmonidae oncorhynchus but, that they are also two distinct and...

flylordsmag.com

 

[clarkman]

I've never seen any cutts out of thousands of D fish encountered....But I have seen lots of older redsides that have VERY prominent "slashes", but I've never taken the time to finger their throat to see if they had teeth on their tongue since I figured hooking, playing, and netting was invasive enough for their well-being.

 

[Matt B]

If they have small teeth on the back of the tongue they are Cuttbows. Rainbows don’t.

Interestingly, last night I read that inland redbands, McCloud redbands in particular, frequently have the throat mark and basobranchial teeth.

 

[DerekWhipple]

Interestingly, last night I read that inland redbands, McCloud redbands in particular, frequently have the throat mark and basobranchial teeth.

Didn't cutthroat come first? If so, it would make sense that some strains can have cutt characteristics.

 

[Dave Boyle]

Apparently it’s a characteristic of some inland redbands, O mykiss gairdneri. They’re still rainbows. There are better citations out there but I am lazy right now:

The Difference Between Rainbow, Cutthroat, and Cut-Bow Trout - Flylords Mag

When asked to define the difference between a Rainbow Trout and a Cutthroat Trout, a biologist would tell you that although both species have different origins and ranges, they are both members of the same family and genus Salmonidae oncorhynchus but, that they are also two distinct and...

flylordsmag.com

Thanks Matt. This would explain the fish we were seeing on a popular eastside lake with two campgrounds. There's no cutts and the fish are all stocked to my knowledge, yet about 25% had faint to fairly strong flashes. Our hypothesis was human error at the hatchery and a 'mix up'; however your note makes good sense.

Dave

 

[Travis Bille]

Some of the rainbows in the Sacramento River have those slashes too, and to my knowledge that system has never had cutthroat.

 

[Mingo]

That's really common for certain rainbow strains. I've caught many Deschutes bows in my life and plenty had faint slash marks on their throats. I've even caught steelhead in that river that had faint throat slashes. Back when the Warm Springs river was open (I cut my fly fishing eye teeth on that river in the 60s and 70s), nearly every wild bow had those markings. But none of the hatchery ones had them.

Nice fish!

 

[DerekWhipple]

I remembered there was a conversation about this on the old board. Poster "Shack" posted this. Don't know if he moved over here or not.

Redband have orange slashes sometimes as well. I don't understand the lineage super well but basically redband are a result of coastal rainbows invading inland cutthroat with varying degrees of success. As an example, the fish in the deschutes river are genetically different than the fish above the falls on the white river due to rainbows having access to the deschutes post-rainbow divergence as a species but not being able to go up the falls on the white river. Interestingly, white river redband above the falls are more genetically similar to Klamath and fort rock redband than deschutes redband. Redband sometimes retain classic inland cutthroat characteristics such as the slash as you've noticed, or a maxillary that extends beyond the eye, or spotting that is heavier towards the posterior of the fish among other things

 

[Crawbugger]

I’ve caught Redsides with cutt slashes on the Lower D. I don’t take pictures so you just have to trust me.

 

[FinLuver]

I've never seen any cutts out of thousands of D fish encountered....But I have seen lots of older redsides that have VERY prominent "slashes", but I've never taken the time to finger their throat to see if they had teeth on their tongue since I figured hooking, playing, and netting was invasive enough for their well-being.

Swapping tongues with fish could become a new fad. Some anglers like to kiss their catch as evidenced by some photos. At the very least, a species determination could be had.

 

[clarkman]

Swapping tongues with fish could become a new fad. Some anglers like to kiss their catch as evidenced by some photos. At the very least, a species determination could be had.

Nothing to see here, I'm a scientist.....