Bugger/Leech Leader formula?

[mcswny]

I'll confess. I almost never fish buggers or leeches where I'm actually having to cast them (generally referring to sizes 6-10).
This is honestly only because I tie them onto my standard 5x or 6x leaders and they just collapse on themselves.
I've never took the time to figure out the balance for these smaller "streamers." Whereas I'm perfectly happy with my big (6") streamer leader (24" 20lb Maxima, Small Barrell Swivel, 12" 12lb Ultragreen)

I'm in the process of starting to tie all my own knotted leaders.
1. For my dry flys I'm going to use a variation of George Harvey's formula.
2. I already tie my big streamer leaders
3. Now I'd like to tie some bugger/leech leaders for high lakes.

What do you do?

 

[Tom Butler]

I've been working on fishing buggers in the lake this spring with a full sink type 6, sz. 8 and 10 3xl. I'm having success with 6" 20# and 18" 10# ultragreen to a ring, then 2' 3x tippet.

 

[wetline dave]

Generally when the leader/tippet collapse it is due to too light of leader/tippet material.

Dave

 

[troutpocket]

For a fast sinking line, 24” of 12lb maxima, 48” of 1x or 2x fluoro, joined by a triple surgeons knot.

For a intermediate line, 9’ 1x nylon tapered leader, 36” of 1x or 2x fluoro, joined by a triple surgeons knot. I like a longer leader when I’m fishing shallow.

The stout tippet turns over buggers, leeches, and baitfish patterns and helps with getting the fly back when you find the structure.

 

[Buzzy]

For a fast sinking line, 24” of 12lb maxima, 48” of 1x or 2x fluoro, joined by a triple surgeons knot.

For a intermediate line, 9’ 1x nylon tapered leader, 36” of 1x or 2x fluoro, joined by a triple surgeons knot. I like a longer leader when I’m fishing shallow.

The stout tippet turns over buggers, leeches, and baitfish patterns and helps with getting the fly back when you find the structure.

Ditto what Troutpocket says, me too. One exception - I sometimes like to fish a "noisy" fly - big clipped deer hair streamer. Sometimes these flies twist the leader, even with 2X flouro tippet so (gasp) I quickly add a swivel in the 2X section, it only takes a minute or two.

 

[mcswny]

This is all super helpful.
Thanks guys.

 

[Divad]

My .02, no knot is 100% and every knot is a hindrance to strength, sink rate, and stealth. I work on setting up the head/polyleader combo for a smooth taper and run straight mono/fluoro to the leech or bugger. Same framework for small to big lakes.

Dry fly? I buy the tapered leaders and loop to loop some tippet at the end or a small tippet ring. The less knots the better Ive come to live by, and I also once built my own leaders.

 

[dirty dog]

What Divad said about knots is right on.
I tied some of my own leaders and found there were to many knots.
Now I use a tapered leader down to 5 or 6x, snip it off to about 3x and then tie on a 5x to that.
I don't know why, but tapered leaders at 6x seem to break off until it gets up to 3x.
When I'm fishing in big trout water I never go below 3x.
3x floro tied to 3x mono seems to work very well for me on big trout.

 

[Wetswinger]

Ditto what Troutpocket says, me too. One exception - I sometimes like to fish a "noisy" fly - big clipped deer hair streamer. Sometimes these flies twist the leader, even with 2X flouro tippet so (gasp) I quickly add a swivel in the 2X section, it only takes a minute or two.

I've found that flies with a palmered hackle spin like a screw. I have several long streamer patterns that would tangle my line. A small swivel helps..

 

[Old Man]

Why do people over think fly fishing. I use tapered leaders all the time. like Buzzy said. clip off the tip and add what size tippet you think you need. If I was using a fast sinking line. I would go with a level leader, because your not going to do much casting with a fast sinking line. It is just a might heavy and it would just wear you out quicker.

I fly fish because I enjoy it and it is my idea of fun. I try to get by, by making it as light as possible as not to wear out my arm. When you get older you will understand that reasoning.

 

[Aleforme]

Wow, this thread came at the perfect time. I'm heading out to an ONP lake this weekend and this will be my first foray into fishing some buggers and leeches on a lake so this information is perfectly on point. Thanks everyone!

 

[kmudgn]

This should be a lesson to you: Do not fish wooly buggers, or leaches. Use dry flies as nature intended!

 

[mcswny]

This should be a lesson to you: Do not fish wooly buggers, or leaches. Use dry flies as nature intended!

HA!

 

[sal_the_salmon]

so my favorite way to fish leeches is under a indicator (iras foam style or a thingamabobber if you dont need to fish deep). Letting them work and drift in the wind, 2 on a leader, is a deadly formula esp over the transition zones in the lake (drop off, steep banks, etc). If there is no wind a super slow hand twist retrieve works well, just enough to jog the indicator a few inches each time.

For rigging I will talk about a tradional depth of say 8-15 foot presentations. Leaders for 20-30 feet are possible as well, but not really able to be cast with any joy.

I start with ~4 foot section of maxima ultragreen in 25 or . This is where the indicator will attach. Then I blood knot to 15 lb florocarbon, a section slightly longer then the ultragreen. I attach a small micro swivel to the end of the 15 lb floro. Attach a decent sized split shot above the micro swivel.

Next comes my terminal tackle. I like 8lb florocarbon ~1.5 feet to my first fly. This will be a tradional rabbit leech tied with some lead underwraps close to the head. (picture 1).

Next I will attach a ~3 foot 8lb florocarbon tippet to the EYE of the top leech. Rigging to the eye will allow the top leach to undulate horizontal in the water column. The bottom leech finishes the rig, and it is important to use a Balance or Jig style fly with weight here as well. This fly can also be a chrinomid or bloodworm pattern on this rig.

Some notes on patterns. I find black to be universally effective, and UV ice dubs seem to fish well for the heads/bodys. I prefer rabbit leeches over all others. Tie your bugs on the heavy side so the system has enough weight to hang with tension from your indicator. As a bonus with the heavy flies, you can simply remove the indicator and troll as you paddle to new locations. This rig trolls well. Downside to weighted rabbit flys is they do not cast amazing. This rig works best with roll casting and water loading. If you can handle the heavy flies and a 13 foot leader its deadly and versitile on almost any stillwater in the NW and will work for lots of species.

One last thing to note, if you are fishing solo and you are using a indicator to bottom fly length of more then 12-13 feet it can be very challenging to land a fish, especially if you are in a float tube. For this reason alone, I prefer a slip bobber on stillwater.

 

[mcswny]

so my favorite way to fish leeches is under a indicator (iras foam style or a thingamabobber if you dont need to fish deep). Letting them work and drift in the wind, 2 on a leader, is a deadly formula esp over the transition zones in the lake (drop off, steep banks, etc). If there is no wind a super slow hand twist retrieve works well, just enough to job the indicator a few inches each time.

For rigging I will talk about a tradional depth of say 8-15 foot presentations. Leaders for 20-30 feet are possible as well, but not really able to be casted with any joy.

I start with ~4 foot section of maxima ultragreen in 25 or . This is where the indicator will attach. Then I blood knot to 15 lb florocarbon, a section slightly longer then the ultragreen. I attach a small micro swivel to the end of the 15 lb floro. Attach a decent sized split shot above the micro swivel.

Next comes my terminal tackle. I like 8lb florocarbon ~1.5 feet to my first fly. This will be a tradional rabbit leech tied with some lead underwraps close to the head. (picture 1).

Next I will attach a ~3 foot 8lb florocarbon tippet to the EYE of the top leech. Rigging to the eye will allow the top leach to undulate horizontal in the water column. The bottom leech finishes the rig, and it is important to use a Balance or Jig style fly with weight here as well. This fly can also be a chrinomid or bloodworm pattern on this rig.

Some notes on patterns. I find black to be universally effective, and UV ice dubs seem to fish well for the heads/bodys. I prefer rabbit leeches over all others. Tie your bugs on the heavy side so the system has enough weight to hang with tension from your indicator. As a bonus with the heavy flies, you can simply remove the indicator and troll as you paddle to new locations. This rig trolls well. Downside to weighted rabbit flys is they do now cast amazing. This rig works best with roll casting and water loading. If you can handle the heavy flies and a 13 foot leader its deadly and versitile on almost any stillwater in the NW and will work for lots of species.

One last thing to note, if you are fishing solo and you are using a indicator to bottom fly length of more then 12-13 feet it can be very challenging to land a fish, especially if you are in a float tube. For this reason alone, I prefer a slip bobber on stillwater.


View attachment 20453

Thanks sal!
Enjoy your journey back?

 

[sal_the_salmon]

Thanks sal!
Enjoy your journey back?

back from the ocean?

naw it was a god dam clusterfuck.

 

[mcswny]

back from the ocean?

naw it was a god dam clusterfuck.

Especially with all those assholes hot spotting your natal streams.

 

[mcswny]

I tied a up a leader using this formula and it cast way better than any leader I've ever casted.
~50" 30lb Chameleon
~20" 20lb Chameleon
~12" 15lb Ultragreen
~6" 8lb Ultragreen
Tippet Ring
~18" 3x

Everything was tied with blood knots except the knots on the tippet ring.
Some will say this is unnecessarily complicated and some will say it's not complicated enough but it worked for me!
Casting on my fast 5wt and it felt great. I still have on issue left I want to work through but thats in my fly so I'm going to start another thread.