With Our Already High Fuel Prices This Is Really Going To Hit The Pocketbook

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Sheesh, attacking EV's and politicians is not doing much to solve the core problem. We have (and are) soiling out planet. It has produced bad effects and will only get worse. That is the problem which needs action. Denial is not an action that will work to save us all.
 
The Manhattan Institute does not appear to be a neutral source. Wikipedia says The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is a conservative American think tank focused on domestic policy and urban affairs, These data have a look of being cherry picked to make a point. I question your source.
In this debate there are no NEUTRAL sources no matter which side you subscribe to. Crediting Wikipedia, one of the most left-leaning online encyclopedias, is hypocritical. You can cite a clearly non-neutral source, but I can't. You cited UW above, which I am sure is sucking at the tit of climate change grant money just like everyone else. Is UW a neutral source? - hardly.
 
Sheesh, attacking EV's and politicians is not doing much to solve the core problem. We have (and are) soiling out planet. It has produced bad effects and will only get worse. That is the problem which needs action. Denial is not an action that will work to save us all.

Is there a strategy in place to solve the problem with this gas tax? I checked the department of ecology page and just got vague words about climate justice. How is giving the government money going to solve things? And yeah I'm not for being hard on the planet either.
 
A bit of background on the Manhattan Institute:


The Manhattan Institute was one of the go-to firms for the tobacco industry, when that industry was trying to muddy the waters on the link between smoking and cancer.

But Sourcewatch itself is a liberal left-wing biased site:

 
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There does not seem to be a correlation between High taxes and increases in poverty. In fact, much of it seems to be quite the opposite (deep south). Is this a matter of state with better economies being willing to tax themselves more? Is it a factor of states that spend on education. Do the programs that he taxes fund actually help the poor get out of poverty?
It's clear that inflation and gas taxes hit the poor the hardest, but again the states and areas with high gas taxes don't seem to corelate with higher poverty rates. I know that correlation does not equal causation. Correlation often gives you a place to work off of though.
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I like maps. I see the world through maps.

Sometimes I think that we really do not know the actual effect of high taxes. Co and NH buck the trend of low tax states having higher poverty rates. NH is my home state and may have some geographical reasons that skew the numbers (Mass). NM should be discounted for similar reasons. PA is fascinating.
 
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There does not seem to be a correlation between High taxes and increases in poverty. In fact, much of it seems to be quite the opposite (deep south). Is this a matter of state with better economies being willing to tax themselves more? Is it a factor of states that spend on education. Do the programs that he taxes fund actually help the poor get out of poverty?
It's clear that inflation and gas taxes hit the poor the hardest, but again the states and areas with high gas taxes don't seem to corelate with higher poverty rates. I know that correlation does not equal causation. Correlation often gives you a place to work off of though.
View attachment 37978

I like maps. I see the world through maps.

Sometimes I think that we really do not know the actual effect of high taxes. Co and NH buck the trend of low tax states having higher poverty rates. NH is my home state and may have some geographical reasons that skew the numbers (Mass). NM should be discounted for similar reasons. PA is fascinating.

Larger businesses are able to fend off high taxes more effectively and employ people in numbers (often at just above poverty rate). This can drive out small business in competitive terms and in the cut the government requires. I'm sure our state is friendlier to big business than small. Even in my hometown the local Wal Mart was heralded as a job thing and got tax negative status. The result was shuttering of small shops that had been there for generations in many cases and the social assistance systems picking up where Wal Mart left off. In other words the citizens made up for poverty wages. Much of the data in Washington I'm sure is skewed my big tech in king county etc. I don't concur this gas tax will help anyone avoid poverty. I don't think taxes cause prosperity. Just food for thought.
 
I like maps. I see the world through maps.
I do as well. Maybe why surveying and mapping seemed natural. Now, as an GIS instructor, it's even more fun. Those are great informational maps. What I like about mapping with Geographic Information Systems (we use ESRI GIS products) is besides looking at the maps and making comparative analysis and decisions in your head, (with any bias), we can write a query and create new dataset layers and maps that would answer the questions mathematically. Yes, you can bias anything, but we try to do it right. We have a full set of the census data that we use for projects and what were talking about here is some of the things that we can look at. A popular and eye opening set of labs we do revolves around food deserts. A lot of what I teach around is agriculture based.
 
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I hope you are kidding. I am a millennial and am 20 years into my career. I honestly take all of this hate on the young workers as projection from the seniors at this point. Every company I have worked for it was always “the rules are for thee and not for me” from the senior folks, they never lead by example, few people ever know what they are doing. It’s like in their time all you had to do was show up for the job and eventually you move on up.

I can honestly say I would absolutely love to work for a true leader. Most of my bosses have been alcoholics, narcissists, and just play boss games all the time. We are only beginning to see how poorly our country is ready for succession as Boomers retire and I’ll bet the Boomers will continue to blame the younger workers who they didn’t train, didn’t show how to lead, didn’t manage well, because they couldn’t get out of the way of their own ego.
I'm a boomer, retired. I worked close to 47 years with 4 years of that in the Navy. I don't blame millennials for their situation but maybe some of their attitudes as they falsely blame me because of my age and "boomer" handle. I do sympathize with the situation that our world economy is in, not just for millenialls. My 45 year old daughter and her husband sold their big, beautiful house in Japan and moved to Los Angeles a year ago. They're renting a house in a decent and apparently safe neighborhood. Even with their combined income (they're both employed with good salaries) they can't afford a house in their neighborhood of choice. That really sucks.

I'm not a hateful boomer; I'm sympathetic to your situation and that of all people struggling in the workforce. Best of luck to you in improving your financial situation.
 
"Electrification can reduce the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of light-duty vehicles. Previous studies have focused on comparing battery electric vehicle (BEV) sedans to their conventional internal combustion engine vehicle (ICEV) or hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) counterparts. We extend the analysis to different vehicle classes by conducting a cradle-to-grave life cycle GHG assessment of model year 2020 ICEV, HEV, and BEV sedans, sports utility vehicles (SUVs), and pickup trucks in the United States. We show that the proportional emissions benefit of electrification is approximately independent of vehicle class. For sedans, SUVs, and pickup trucks we find HEVs and BEVs have approximately 28% and 64% lower cradle-to-grave life cycle emissions, respectively, than ICEVs in our base case model".

The role of pickup truck electrification in the decarbonization of light-duty vehicles - Maxwell Woody et al 2022 Environ. Res. Lett. 17 034031

Joint paper by UMich and Ford. Recently corrected as well, but didn't alter findings much.
 
I have come to the conclusion that there are many people on this site with whom I will never agree on political issues (gun control, climate change, and tax policy chief among them). But, those very same people post great trip reports, catch big fish often, tie beautiful flies, bake awesome bread, and take great photos. I get plenty of political discourse outside of this site. I plan to just enjoy what I share with these folks and ignore what makes us different. This site is a nice break from the cold civil war outside my door (God help us all).
 
In this debate there are no NEUTRAL sources no matter which side you subscribe to. Crediting Wikipedia, one of the most left-leaning online encyclopedias, is hypocritical. You can cite a clearly non-neutral source, but I can't. You cited UW above, which I am sure is sucking at the tit of climate change grant money just like everyone else. Is UW a neutral source? - hardly.
Can you please point to sources that make Wikipedia one of the most left-leaning online encyclopedias. It was my understanding that Wikipedia accepts data from both sides of the fence.
 
I have come to the conclusion that there are many people on this site with whom I will never agree on political issues (gun control, climate change, and tax policy chief among them). But, those very same people post great trip reports, catch big fish often, tie beautiful flies, bake awesome bread, and take great photos. I get plenty of political discourse outside of this site. I plan to just enjoy what I share with these folks and ignore what makes us different. This site is a nice break from the cold civil war outside my door (God help us all).

Well that leaves me out. I can't catch a fish to save my life as of late. And I'm blaming climate change and inflation as the reasons they aren't biting.
 
I forgot to add "have great senses of humor..."

My great grandfather was apparently telling jokes and hanging with the band as the Titanic sunk. "You call that an iceberg, I've had bigger burgs in my drink. Seriously though all is well the captain and I only split a bottle, I'm sure he has it all in hand. This water is cold though, and deep."
 
I'm a boomer, retired. I worked close to 47 years with 4 years of that in the Navy. I don't blame millennials for their situation but maybe some of their attitudes as they falsely blame me because of my age and "boomer" handle. I do sympathize with the situation that our world economy is in, not just for millenialls. My 45 year old daughter and her husband sold their big, beautiful house in Japan and moved to Los Angeles a year ago. They're renting a house in a decent and apparently safe neighborhood. Even with their combined income (they're both employed with good salaries) they can't afford a house in their neighborhood of choice. That really sucks.

I'm not a hateful boomer; I'm sympathetic to your situation and that of all people struggling in the workforce. Best of luck to you in improving your financial situation.

I’m fine financially because I am highly educated, always show up for work on time with my coffee and breakfast in me, and I do my 8 hours a day. I consider myself extremely lucky. I feel my level of dedication to my job should be plenty for financial stability because I know people who do what I have done and they never get ahead. They are stressed and angry and constantly reminded of their shortcomings as a reason for their struggle. The amount of costs and dues to pay to get a job that can support a family is absurd right now and there is no solution I know of.

Too many people are gaged by their weaknesses that may be few rather than their strengths that may be numerous. All my bosses remember that one day I fucked up but don’t think of it in terms of one fuckup in four years like they should. They use that one fuckup to fuck you over again and again. Bosses and managers never get this treatment.

Most of the senior bosses and managers seem to think perfection is required to get to their level and yet they are are so far from perfect it is laughable. Like I said, we need people who lead by example, and that is not the current senior worker in this country. People who make mistakes, admit them, and grow by example. I am sure all the lazy millennials are working from example or simply feel that there is no point to it all.
 
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I have come to the conclusion that there are many people on this site with whom I will never agree on political issues (gun control, climate change, and tax policy chief among them). But, those very same people post great trip reports, catch big fish often, tie beautiful flies, bake awesome bread, and take great photos. I get plenty of political discourse outside of this site. I plan to just enjoy what I share with these folks and ignore what makes us different. This site is a nice break from the cold civil war outside my door (God help us all).
Lots of people with lots of frustrations to get out with those dreaded midterms rolling in. As long as it's not personal and gets nasty I think talking is better then everyone staying in their bubble. People can participate or ignore. I also have a sense of humor (y) the thread will be closed when it runs its course and another will come along eventually, like the sun rising in the east.
 
Larger businesses are able to fend off high taxes more effectively and employ people in numbers (often at just above poverty rate). This can drive out small business in competitive terms and in the cut the government requires. I'm sure our state is friendlier to big business than small. Even in my hometown the local Wal Mart was heralded as a job thing and got tax negative status. The result was shuttering of small shops that had been there for generations in many cases and the social assistance systems picking up where Wal Mart left off. In other words the citizens made up for poverty wages. Much of the data in Washington I'm sure is skewed my big tech in king county etc. I don't concur this gas tax will help anyone avoid poverty. I don't think taxes cause prosperity. Just food for thought.
I don't know if higher taxes lead to lower poverty rates. It certainly goes against conventional wisdom.

I can think of scenarios where they could help. I have researched for data supporting these thoughts, but here goes:

If one were to show which states/ areas spend more on education, I think that you would see that it would mostly correlate with lower poverty rates. Education spending drives my state and local tax bill (property tax). We are pretty heavily taxed in B'ham. We have new schools all over. The town is growing rapidly. There are other reasons for the growth too, so it's hard to say for certain.

My curiosity is if the wealthier areas are more likely to tax themselves or if the areas that have better schools/ infrastructure due to higher taxes are better able to attract the people and therefore the businesses that allow for greater prosperity. It's a which comes first, the chicken or the egg scenario. It is probably a factor of many things, not just taxes. Alternatively, the reason that the South/ lower Mississippi valley has high poverty rates has nothing to do with taxation. The reason that NJ and Mass and Minn have low poverty rates have nothing to do with taxation. It's a correlation without any causation.

I have also considered that taxation rates may be an proxy for another factor that is the main driver such as a cultural trait endemic to a region or education. I am curious where this Five-Thirty-Eight series goes:

Since voting has a direct correlation to taxation, who a region votes for will show their collective stance on taxes (and other things). If we then take that majority voter base and see what they believe in with regards to education or social safety nets, or Wal-Marts etc., then we may see a correlation at least. This could also explain why certain high tax areas don't have the poverty rates that would be expected, knowing that certain taxes hit low income earners more.

If this gas tax does lead to more electric cars on the road and electric cars are in fact how the country goes, it may be wise in the long run to have a population that has already transitioned. You would get the trend setter electric mechanics, dealerships, infrastructure etc. I am not sure that it would make up for $0.49 / gal. during the transition but maybe it's a good thing economically to be seen as leading the way. Maybe the population that is willing to change, and therefore willing to vote for a gas tax hiker, is the one better able to change. The only constant is change. This may get back to demographic trends predicting poverty rates/ affluence and not taxation.

These are my rambling thoughts. I am not nearly as funny as Chromers. I apologize for that.
 
Can you please point to sources that make Wikipedia one of the most left-leaning online encyclopedias. It was my understanding that Wikipedia accepts data from both sides of the fence.
The co-founder of wikipedia has been saying it for a while. Does that count?
 
Can you please point to sources that make Wikipedia one of the most left-leaning online encyclopedias. It was my understanding that Wikipedia accepts data from both sides of the fence.


 
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