NFR Data Centers near you?

Non-fishing related
Ok, my thoughts, again;

1. If you disdain the thoughts of "laypeople" who are fighting data centers so much that you decry the lack of "actual authorities" on said subject, you're looking in the wrong place. BUT, DO Pay attention to what these antis are saying

Too much noise

Too much water use

Why should they pay the price for the stupidly monstrous power used by a company that doesnt actually contribute?

In an economy where every penny counts for the average household, many rightly feel they're being unduly burdened with something the do not want, nor do they feel they need.

Quite simply, it's your neighbors practicing a form of economic conservation.

2. Siting these things within neighborhoods and compacted population centers is asinine. The power grid impacts alone are horrid. Find a spot in Lower BFE and pay to have your own lines run and pay your own damn water and electric bills.

A counter to this, there are 4 old school data centers built by AT&T inside NYC alone. 6 in Dallas, and many more in each major city. These were build in the 60's and 70's as part of a "Continuity of Government " program funded by the NSA. Most of them look like windowless office towers, or windowless low profile warehouses.

3. Siting operational equipment that uses huge amounts of water in areas hugely in water debt already is irresponsible. Did, (does) no one do an EIS ? Thinking here of the Amarillo site mentioned before, as well as the other sites in the southwest that are planned for areas that rely heavily on already shrinking underground aquifers just for basic human needs.

(Also, what happens when Hoover Dam stops generating power because it's a dead pool? (Will the damn dam collapse without the weight of the water to push against it?)
 
Its all about getting CLOSE TO THE DATA these days. That's why you're seeing Large Camps poppin up next to these DATA CENTERS!!!! People squeezin up next to the outside walls of these DATA CENTERS. especially when you Go On The Internet. Then it is very valuable to be to be IN THE DATA CENTER SYSTEM. If you don't HAVE the Uprgraded Router you can't attain these data center levels SUFFICIENT to Go On The Internet
 
Zak said:
Fossil fuel subsidies - Wikipedia https://share.google/n2nOU2dFcA2NgEmIJ

I have got say, it rubs me the wrong way when you say "it is not open for debate." Saying so does not make it so. In my view whether wind power is green is up for debate. Especially when the question is not whether wind power is green as some kind of absolute position, but whether it is relatively green compared to say, oil or coal. For example, how much concrete is in a coal power plant (aside from the other not green impacts of mining and burning coal).

I keep coming back to the fact that fossil fuel will run out (or it will become so expensive to extract after we pick all the low hanging fruit that it might as will have run out). We'll have to switch then, so why not get started on the switch now?

I am also concerned that the rest of the world is going to move on from fossil fuels without U.S., and we are squandering our chance to reap the benefits that the earlier adopters will receive.
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I am concerned that communist China who doesn't care about any human rights will become the dominant world power, something to which they absolutely do aspire to. Winning the AI/ technology is vitally important to keeping China at bay. This is more important than any environmental issue because war with China destroys the environment utterly.

That said we can have an excess of electrical energy for data centers and everyone else by pursuing nuclear power. It is clean power generation and with modern technology it would allow us to recycle our "spent" nuclear fuel. I've heard it said that we can get 95% more power out of them in more efficient modern reactors. Also doing this allows us to reuse that fuel down to a half life of 30 years vs 100,000 years. For that reason alone we have to do this from an environmental reasons.
Actually green energy... not relatively green energy. A power plant that actually makes the world a better place by reducing nuclear waste. I do not see how this not a national priority.
 
wanderingrichard said:
That's a bad place to put one, and a bad decision by local government.

The Amarillo area is running out of water, most which comes from an endangered and deep aquifer.

Thank you Captain Oblivious
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That I totally agree with.. data centers need to be near large bodies of surface water. The exact kinds of places where putting them meets the stiffest opposition.
 
Rob Allen said:
I dunno much about solar but these wind turbines in my back yard can go to Hell.

Go drive through a wind farm some time see the who knows how many gallons of oil spilling out of then.. then stay til evening and look for the hordes of bats out eating bugs. Or. The lack thereof. Windmills are absolutely not green at all. Drive through the panhandle or Oklahoma and see all the broken ones that don't generate enough revenue to repair. Someone mentioned the federal budget earlier. Wind farm subsidies have been in the 200 billion range.
Seen all the steel reinforcements that go in the huge concrete of one of those things? 30-60 tons and 2000 tons of concrete

550 wind turbines in Klickitat county another 500 in Sherman County just across the river

Wind green? No is the objectively correct answer... not open for debate.
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if they're in your back yard rob - is there a chance you're utilizing power sourced from windmills? cause if there is - you are prohibited by your own previously posted purity standard from complaining about them in any way. let's keep it real, no hypocrisy. ok?
 
Windmill cancer should be far more concerning to you than China is Rob... you need to get your priorities straight
 
JudyM said:
Clackamas County said NO to Data Centers. The river is drinking water for several towns and some fish runs. Right now, the river is really low and warm.
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From what I understand there are a bunch of procedures a county needs to go through to make this happen. Opposing permits, populating hearings, etc. to name a few. Do you mind sharing what Clackamas County's NO consisted of?
 
Flymph said:
From what I understand there are a bunch of procedures a county needs to go through to make this happen. Opposing permits, populating hearing, etc. to name a few. Do you mind sharing what Clackamas County's NO consisted of?
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I will look it up and post later.
 
Rob Allen said:
I am concerned that communist China who doesn't care about any human rights will become the dominant world power, something to which they absolutely do aspire to. Winning the AI/ technology is vitally important to keeping China at bay. This is more important than any environmental issue because war with China destroys the environment utterly.

That said we can have an excess of electrical energy for data centers and everyone else by pursuing nuclear power. It is clean power generation and with modern technology it would allow us to recycle our "spent" nuclear fuel. I've heard it said that we can get 95% more power out of them in more efficient modern reactors. Also doing this allows us to reuse that fuel down to a half life of 30 years vs 100,000 years. For that reason alone we have to do this from an environmental reasons.
Actually green energy... not relatively green energy. A power plant that actually makes the world a better place by reducing nuclear waste. I do not see how this not a national priority.
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Having a healthy and sustainable environment is a "Human Right". Okanogan county citizens are fighting to keep Data Centers out of an already parched, dry, desert that has gone through one of the worse Wildfire seasons in history! I would suggest you move to Hanford and promote a Data Center there. Both water users could fight it out til the last drop.
 
Rob Allen said:
Except the idea of clean energy is a lie. There are only sources that some people prefer.
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Rob, you have said that all things are not either black or white with you and that you understand shades of gray. However, when you post like this, you're sending the message that you don't understand gray at all. Energy sources lie along an environmental gradient ranging from the cleanest to the dirtiest. Solar and wind lean toward clean, and oil and coal are among the dirtiest known sources of energy. Hydroelectricity is somewhere in the middle of these. Nuclear operates in the "clean" zone, but the spent fuel is the dirtiest compound known to human kind.

When you say that a subject is not open to debate, you're sending a different message than you think. You're telling us that you are closed minded and don't know enough about the subject to engage in a conversation about it.
 
Rob Allen said:
I am concerned that communist China who doesn't care about any human rights will become the dominant world power, something to which they absolutely do aspire to. Winning the AI/ technology is vitally important to keeping China at bay. This is more important than any environmental issue because war with China destroys the environment utterly.

That said we can have an excess of electrical energy for data centers and everyone else by pursuing nuclear power. It is clean power generation and with modern technology it would allow us to recycle our "spent" nuclear fuel. I've heard it said that we can get 95% more power out of them in more efficient modern reactors. Also doing this allows us to reuse that fuel down to a half life of 30 years vs 100,000 years. For that reason alone we have to do this from an environmental reasons.
Actually green energy... not relatively green energy. A power plant that actually makes the world a better place by reducing nuclear waste. I do not see how this not a national priority.
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I have some bad news for you Rob. China will become the dominant world power. It's a matter of when, not if. China has a huge land base and three times the population of the U.S. China employs strategic policies that shift its international dominance upward. In contrast, the U.S. employs policies that are oriented toward maximizing profit this quarter and this year. That is to say, the U.S. focuses on the short game while China focuses on the long game. It's true that China pirates technology from other countries; Japan did that in the last century. And as China's population increases in affluence, it will, more likely than not, become a nation known for innovation. War with China is not inevitable, maybe probable, but not inevitable. Looking forward in time, it's pretty easy to see China dominating the U.S. and western Europe economically. War would be an economic setback; China will be better off if it can avoid war, as will other nations given to weighing the pluses and minuses.

Your assertion that nuclear energy is clean applies only to operation while ignoring the issue of spent fuel. I'm not well informed enough to converse much about spent fuel recycling, so I'm open to learning about proven technological advances in this area. Last time I looked, only zealots denied the extreme toxicity of spent nuclear fuel.
 
China invests over $625 billion annually in clean energy, leading the world by installing more wind and solar capacity than all other countries combined

Perhaps things aren't quite what they seem to be in your view Rob. doubtful the systems they have constructed aren't economically viable, given the scale of investments, as Salmo pointed out...the long view.

The economies of China and the US are so intertwined that a war would be catastrophic economically for both countries, A Thucydides Trap is not an inevitability here, proxy conflicts, as have been the norm since WW2, are the more likely.scenario I'd guess.
 
Rob Allen said:
I am concerned that communist China who doesn't care about any human rights will become the dominant world power, something to which they absolutely do aspire to. Winning the AI/ technology is vitally important to keeping China at bay.
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It take a world wide coalition of democratic countries united in keeping China at bay, which is impossible during a time when US leadership constantly threatens to take over other countries, chokes off humanity funding to third world countries giving China gaps to fill, excoriates the leaders of democratic countries while praising dictators, pulls back US troops and armament from NATO allies, and creates a national brain drain by attacking higher education to the point that some of our best minds moved to countries where higher educations is respected instead of attacked.
 
So I looked and Amazon is working to build one by Wallula (stinky old pulp mill area) on the Columbia. Guess it makes sense, polluted water, Windmills, McNary, and the Snake River Dams for juice.
 
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